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Who will retire with a batting average of >60?

Who will retire with an average of >60?


  • Total voters
    60
  • Poll closed .

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
tooextracool said:
I think thats a good point. Dravid atm is pretty much the only quality batsman in the Indian side at the moment, and one feels that if he doesnt have a good series, Indias hopes of winning them are pretty much useless. Id be extremely surprised if he didnt average over 60 at one point in his career, but unless India start producing some real match winning batsmen that can bat outside the subcontinent, Dravids going to have to hang around for quite a while in international cricket.
As far as Ponting is concerned, i expect his average to start going down pretty soon. Hes just had the best phase of his career, and its imminent for him to have a slump after that.
Yep. I love how everyone after Ponting's awesome season last season went "OMG Ponting is going to get 50 test tons, average 60-65 and will get 15000-16000 test runs." The fact is, people were saying the same thing about Sachin when he was like 25, they were also saying similar things about Lara. I can't believe people don't understand that once age catches up, that's it. Ponting is in his prime now, and he may very well hold the record of centuries and runs, but to think he's going to magically continue as he did last year is fanciful indeed.

Sir Viv declined, Sachin declined, I don't see why Ponting is any different.
 

open365

International Vice-Captain
silentstriker said:
9 matches?
It seems a long enough time for you to condem the next generation of Indian Pace bowlers.

And on the issue of Ponting declining, what's the highest Lara's and Sachin's averages have got to after playing about as many matches as Ponting has played now?

And is Tendulkar really declining? Give the guy a chance, he's been playing international cricket since he was 16, this type of form slump was always on the cards.

Look at Ricky and Dravid's ratings in the top10 batsman thing(I can't remember what the ratings are called) Ricky is at 937, Dravid not far behind from what i can remember. The highest Tendulkar ever managed was 893.
 

Jason_M

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
There's something wrong with the game when there are so many players averaging over 50 in test cricket. Some of the great players of years gone by didn't even average 50. Ponting, Dravid, Kallis, Hayden, are not great players yet they are the type of batsmen that are thriving in today's game whereas the more naturally gifted players who have superior technique tend to struggle, those of them that are actually left. A perfect illustration of this was the Australian batsmen struggling with the swing and movement of English conditions in the last Ashes series. Hayden and Gilchrist in particular struggled in these conditions, which were not like the concrete pitches they're used to back in Oz where they can thrash and bash an attack with brute force and little technique. How would Hayden and Gilchrist have fared in international cricket before the advent of flat, hard pitches in the mid to late 90's, or when there actually was quality fast bowling? Both would struggle to average 35-40. Don't get me wrong Gilchrist is fun to watch but he shouln't be averaging 50, he's not good enough to average 50. When Chris Gayle made his 300 on a flat lifeless wicket who really took notice? It just demeans the value of making such an historic score, and who could forget about Hayden's 380 against Zimbabwe, an embarrassing day for cricket. Hundreds have become meaningless, the art of batting has been thrown out the window for baseball style slogs and slashes, bowling has become irrelevant and confined to boring line and length "keep it tight" rubbish. What happened to the art of out-thinking the batsman where he would mix it up a bit and then throw down the suprise delivery. There's no room for enterprise in today's game that's ruled by the almighty dollar.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
open365 said:
It seems a long enough time for you to condem the next generation of Indian Pace bowlers.
Yea, I think cook will be great, but you can't say for sure just yet. I think Indian pace bowling will not be very good, but you can't make a definitive statement yet.

And on the issue of Ponting declining, what's the highest Lara's and Sachin's averages have got to after playing about as many matches as Ponting has played now?
I think Tendulkar was around 57-58 at his highest point. Gavaskar was also at 57-58 at some point I think. Not sure regarding Tendulkar.

And is Tendulkar really declining? Give the guy a chance, he's been playing international cricket since he was 16, this type of form slump was always on the cards.
Yea, I think he is not the player he once was. He has been playing for almost 18 years, that takes its toll.

Look at Ricky and Dravid's ratings in the top10 batsman thing(I can't remember what the ratings are called) Ricky is at 937, Dravid not far behind from what i can remember. The highest Tendulkar ever managed was 893.
So? Neither Dravid nor Ponting are facing the attacks Lara and Sachin did. And Ponting, when faced with a great pace attack, did not do so well, and when faced with a great spin attack in the subcontinent, also did not do so well. If he can remedy one or both of those problems, then he'll be up there with lara and sachin.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
shortpitched713 said:
I don't see it as very likely that the standard of bowling could decline much more from where it is now tbh. Its been pretty bad for a while now. Really, I see the current domination of batsmen to be as much correlated with flatter pitches and more hectic schedules as it is with lower standards of bowling. And for every Warne, McGrath, Kumble that is retiring, there's many more Asifs, Johnsons, Panesars to take their place. Sure not all of these bowlers will come off, but theres plenty of young bowling talent in the domestic scene.
you're joking right? We may see another Mcgrath, but Warne and Murali are once in a lifetime bowlers, theres probably no spinner post war whos been even near as good as the 2 of them.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
silentstriker said:
So? Neither Dravid nor Ponting are facing the attacks Lara and Sachin did. And Ponting, when faced with a great pace attack, did not do so well, and when faced with a great spin attack in the subcontinent, also did not do so well. If he can remedy one or both of those problems, then he'll be up there with lara and sachin.
Actually both Ponting and Dravid both scored runs against the very same attacks that Tendulkar and Lara played. Ponting and Dravid both have runs against Ambrose and Walsh as well as Donald,Pollock and co. Dravid in fact was averaging over 50 even in the late 90s.
 

shortpitched713

International Captain
tooextracool said:
you're joking right? We may see another Mcgrath, but Warne and Murali are once in a lifetime bowlers, theres probably no spinner post war whos been even near as good as the 2 of them.
While I'm not going to argue that Murali and Warne are both all-time greats, I don't see why you assume that by the time they leave the overall quality of bowling will have greatly diminished. There are plenty of good spinners like Kaneria, Harbajhan, Panesar, Patel. Some of these guys have underperformed, but that doesn't mean they can't be very good bowlers. Murali wasn't all that flash at the begginging of his career either.
 

PhoenixFire

International Coach
silentstriker said:
No, they don't.
Yes, they do.

I quote you the LG ICC Rankings for Test Batting
Runs scored

Ratings of the opposing bowling attack; the higher the combined ratings of the attack, the more value is given to the batsman’s innings (in proportion)

The level of run-scoring in the match, and the team’s innings total; an innings of 100 runs in a match where all teams scored 500 is worth less than 100 runs in a match where all teams were bowled out for 200. And if a team scores 500 in the first innings and 200 in the second innings, a century in the second innings will get more credit than in the first innings (because the general level of run scoring was higher in the first innings)
out or not out (a not out innings receives a bonus)

the result. Batsmen who score highly in victories receive a bonus. That bonus will be higher for highly rated opposition teams (i.e. win bonus against the current Australia team is higher than the bonus against Zimbabwe.)
 

Lillian Thomson

Hall of Fame Member
Tendulkar is going to return to his best for a couple of years and break all records - except Bradman's 99.94 average of course - but he'll top 60.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
Lillian Thomson said:
Tendulkar is going to return to his best for a couple of years and break all records - except Bradman's 99.94 average of course - but he'll top 60.
I hope so, but IMO its highly doubtful. He hasn't been the same for a couple years now, since 2002 really.
 

PhoenixFire

International Coach
Mohammed Yousuf has proved how easy it is too boost your average when you are in a hot streak. He has gone from mid 40s, to early 50s, and looks like it will carry on getting higher.
 

Slifer

International Captain
tooextracool said:
Actually both Ponting and Dravid both scored runs against the very same attacks that Tendulkar and Lara played. Ponting and Dravid both have runs against Ambrose and Walsh as well as Donald,Pollock and co. Dravid in fact was averaging over 50 even in the late 90s.
Yes but they never had to face great bowlers for the majority of their careers and certainly not on these deplorably flat wickets. Take SRT for example, for the majority of his career he would have had to face the following bowlers (many at their peak):

Donald
De Villiers
Pollock
Walsh
Bishop
Ambrose
Warne
Mcgrath
Fleming
Gillespie
Lee
Waqar
Qadir
Akram
Saqlain
Shoaib
Gough
Hadlee


Lara would have to face up to most of these bowlers as well for the majority of their careers.
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
tooextracool said:
Harbhajan and Vettori are decent, but they are nowhere near the Warne/Murali class. Kaneria is quite ordinary as well. As far as Jones and Bond are concerned, Bond is already 31, another injury and he'll be well and truly finished. Jones hasnt played a single test since the Ashes and theres no way anyone can predict that hes going to be the same bowler he was when he returns.
Without bringing up unproven quantities like Tait and Johnson, the only bowlers that look like they have a bright future are Anderson, Asif, Steyn, Gul, Shreesanth, Panesar and Munaf Patel supported with the experience of Lee, Flintoff, Ntini and Hoggard, Harbhajan all of whom are merely good bowlers without being great. Theres 2 spinners on that list and no great bowlers(or bowlers on their way to being great) yet. the future doesnt look to bright to me especially when you consider that we're losing at least 4 great bowlers.
fair enough then, i guess International bowling isn't improving as much as i envisioned..
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
Jason_M said:
There's something wrong with the game when there are so many players averaging over 50 in test cricket. Some of the great players of years gone by didn't even average 50. Ponting, Dravid, Kallis, Hayden, are not great players yet they are the type of batsmen that are thriving in today's game whereas the more naturally gifted players who have superior technique tend to struggle, those of them that are actually left. A perfect illustration of this was the Australian batsmen struggling with the swing and movement of English conditions in the last Ashes series. Hayden and Gilchrist in particular struggled in these conditions, which were not like the concrete pitches they're used to back in Oz where they can thrash and bash an attack with brute force and little technique. How would Hayden and Gilchrist have fared in international cricket before the advent of flat, hard pitches in the mid to late 90's, or when there actually was quality fast bowling? Both would struggle to average 35-40. Don't get me wrong Gilchrist is fun to watch but he shouln't be averaging 50, he's not good enough to average 50. When Chris Gayle made his 300 on a flat lifeless wicket who really took notice? It just demeans the value of making such an historic score, and who could forget about Hayden's 380 against Zimbabwe, an embarrassing day for cricket. Hundreds have become meaningless, the art of batting has been thrown out the window for baseball style slogs and slashes, bowling has become irrelevant and confined to boring line and length "keep it tight" rubbish. What happened to the art of out-thinking the batsman where he would mix it up a bit and then throw down the suprise delivery. There's no room for enterprise in today's game that's ruled by the almighty dollar.
Top post..
 

tooextracool

International Coach
shortpitched713 said:
While I'm not going to argue that Murali and Warne are both all-time greats, I don't see why you assume that by the time they leave the overall quality of bowling will have greatly diminished. There are plenty of good spinners like Kaneria, Harbajhan, Panesar, Patel. Some of these guys have underperformed, but that doesn't mean they can't be very good bowlers. Murali wasn't all that flash at the begginging of his career either.
harbhajan has been around for quite a while now. he made his debut all the way back in 98, so hes been around for over 8 years. Hes been absolutely appalling away for home for pretty much all of those 8 years, and theres no signs of him changing that. i personally cant see either Kaneria or Panesar being anywhere near as good as Murali or Warne, they simply dont have the tools to do so.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Slifer said:
Yes but they never had to face great bowlers for the majority of their careers and certainly not on these deplorably flat wickets. Take SRT for example, for the majority of his career he would have had to face the following bowlers (many at their peak):

Donald
De Villiers
Pollock
Walsh
Bishop
Ambrose
Warne
Mcgrath
Fleming
Gillespie
Lee
Waqar
Qadir
Akram
Saqlain
Shoaib
Gough
Hadlee


Lara would have to face up to most of these bowlers as well for the majority of their careers.
SS was suggesting that Ponting had never scored runs against a great attack, i just pointed out that he has. He may not have done it as consistently as Lara did, but he has scored runs against them.
Dravid on the other hand was averaging around 50 for a 5 year period from 96-00 when the quality of bowling was still pretty good, and this was while he hadnt even hit his prime. i think that says enough for me abt how good he is.
P.s- Tendulkar hasnt played against about half of those bowlers when they were at their peak and he certainly never played Gough, whos never had a game against India.
 

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