Which side has the 2nd best bowling attack behind Australia

[tooextracool]

what every one tends to forget though is that in 02/03, brett lee was bowling just as well in ODIs,including what is arguably his best bowling performance ever in the vb series 2nd final:
http://statserver.cricket.org/guru?...edhigh=;csearch=;submit=1;.cgifields=viewtype

yet in tests matches during the same period he was utter rubbish:

http://statserver.cricket.org/guru?...edhigh=;csearch=;submit=1;.cgifields=viewtype

how are we expected to take his Odi performances seriously this time, let alone consider him as being part of the 2nd best bowling attack in the world?

 

[Will Scarlet]

When bowling well, Pakistan has a really good attack (Akhtar, Sami, Kaneria with Naved to back them up) but consistently, I'd say England's position in world cricket is reflected by the strength in their bowling.

I disagree. Sure, the bowling has improved. I believe England's batting is definitely the main reason for their recent success. The addition of Strauss and development of Flintoff's batting the main contributors.

ENG won the series against NZ simply because their batsmen put on so many runs against a weakened NZ bowling attack. The two series against the WI were evident of essentially a one man batting line-up and weak WI bowling.

This said, I do believe England's bowling is the most consistent after Australia. But Australia will destroy it this summer.

 

[tooextracool]

Then how can u honestly say after making that statement that
If ODI do not contribute to the form of a bowler. brett lee has not played a test match for nearly 18 months and therefore how can u say he has been bowling poorly for 5 years when cleary he has not?

i was referring to his test match career, which from 2001 onwards has been appalling.

 

[chaminda_00]

what every one tends to forget though is that in 02/03, brett lee was bowling just as well in ODIs,including what is arguably his best bowling performance ever in the vb series 2nd final:
http://statserver.cricket.org/guru?...edhigh=;csearch=;submit=1;.cgifields=viewtype

yet in tests matches during the same period he was utter rubbish:

http://statserver.cricket.org/guru?...edhigh=;csearch=;submit=1;.cgifields=viewtype

how are we expected to take his Odi performances seriously this time, let alone consider him as being part of the 2nd best bowling attack in the world?

Something you may have missed is that his hot streak in the ODIs started after the Test Series finished. After the VB Series Finals and WC their wasn't any Test Matches.

 

[tooextracool]

Something you may have missed is that his hot streak in the ODIs started after the Test Series finished. After the VB Series and WC their wasn't any Test Matches.

it might take you a while to realise this, but a part of the vb series was played, yep you guessed it in between the test series. in between the 3rd and 4th tests he played 3 ODIs and took figures of 4/47 ,2/31 and 3/23. then played the test matches and went for 2/70,1/87 , 2/97 and 3/132........

 

[chaminda_00]

Sorry i think you quoted before i edited my post with Finals. I don't think you can say that figures of 0/41, 0/65, 1/44 and 0/28 as being in form. These were his figures prior to the finals. After the finals he averages 15.4 including the WC. That was his hot streak in ODIs and after he didn't play a Test for something like six months and therefore didn't get to carry his best form of his career till now into Tests

 

[tooextracool]

Sorry i think you quoted before i edited my post with Finals. I don't think you can say that figures of 0/41, 0/65, 1/44 and 0/28 as being in form.

so he was out of form at perth,then got in form for the first 3 ODIs of the vb series, then got out of form for the 2 tests and couple of ODIs and then got in form again during the finals?
more tripe?
and you might want to note that 0/28 from 10 overs is hardly poor, nor is 1/44 from 10 overs, they are both economical spells of bowling. it was only his 0/65 that was poor.

These were his figures prior to the finals. After the finals he averages 15.4 including the WC. That was his hot streak in ODIs and after he didn't play a Test for something like six months and therefore didn't get to carry his best form of his career till now into Tests

except that his hot streak didnt stop at the world cup. it carried on until the vb series in 03/04.
2002-2003 WIN v AUS 48.4 7 246 11 0 3/50 22.36 5.05
2003-2004 VB Series 66 4 285 12 0 3/22 23.75 4.32

and all of that, while still being garbage at the test match level.

 

[aussie]

Sorry i think you quoted before i edited my post with Finals. I don't think you can say that figures of 0/41, 0/65, 1/44 and 0/28 as being in form. These were his figures prior to the finals. After the finals he averages 15.4 including the WC. That was his hot streak in ODIs and after he didn't play a Test for something like six months and therefore didn't get to carry his best form of his career till now into Tests

what are you sayin chaminda after the world cup Lee played in australia's next 6 test againts WI & BAN

 

[chaminda_00]

what are you sayin chaminda after the world cup Lee played in australia's next 6 test againts WI & BAN

Forget about that six month thing it was a typo

After the WC he did show he could convert ODI form into Test Cricket with his series aganist the Windies on realitively flat tracks

 

[tooextracool]

That was his hot streak in ODIs and after he didn't play a Test for something like six months and therefore didn't get to carry his best form of his career till now into Tests

cant believed i missed this last time......
he played the first test against the WI, a whole 17 days after his last wc game.

 

[chaminda_00]

except that his hot streak didnt stop at the world cup. it carried on until the vb series in 03/04.
2002-2003 WIN v AUS 48.4 7 246 11 0 3/50 22.36 5.05
2003-2004 VB Series 66 4 285 12 0 3/22 23.75 4.32

and all of that, while still being garbage at the test match level.

Was he garbage in the Windies on the flat tracks they had their was he. The only time that he was garbage in Test Cricket aganist proper teams after that was aganist India were he was half fit and against the second best batting line up in the world.

 

[aussie]

Was he garbage in the Windies on the flat tracks they had their was he. The only time that he was garbage in Test Cricket aganist proper teams after that was aganist India were he was half fit and against the second best batting line up in the world.

no, no when Australia were here 4 years ago his bowling performance in that series wasn't too special

 

[chaminda_00]

no, no when Australia were here 4 years ago his bowling performance in that series wasn't too special

4 years ago before the VB Series Finals amd WC, after he hit form in ODIs

 

[tooextracool]

Was he garbage in the Windies on the flat tracks they had their was he. The only time that he was garbage in Test Cricket aganist proper teams after that was aganist India were he was half fit and against the second best batting line up in the world.

nope but he wasnt anything brilliant.
but he was garbage in both ashes series, he was garbage in both series against SA, he was garbage in pakistan, and he was garbage even against b'desh and zimbabwe!

 

[aussie]

4 years ago before the VB Series Finals amd WC, after he hit form in ODIs

oh ok now i see ur point

 

[chaminda_00]

nope but he wasnt anything brilliant.
but he was garbage in both ashes series, he was garbage in both series against SA, he was garbage in pakistan, and he was garbage even against b'desh and zimbabwe!

Mate was the Ashes, SA, Pakistan after the VB Series Finals and World Cup, no.

Does performances aganist a FC Standard side if that show a player's ability in Test Cricket, no, if so Giles would be the worst spinner in the world cus he averaged 100 plus aganist Bangla.

You been saying that ODI cricket has no relation to a player's form in Test Cricket but after the VB Series Finals in 2003 and World Cup Brett Lee bowled well aganist the Windies, not brilliant but well, therefore transfering his form from ODIs to Test. No doubt he didn't bowl well aganist India in the other proper Test Series that he after that time, but that was more down to injury and the fact that he was bowling to the 2nd best batting line up in the world, maybe third now before England. But that another discussion.

 

[vic_orthdox]

No doubt he didn't bowl well aganist India in the other proper Test Series that he after that time, but that was more down to injury and the fact that he was bowling to the 2nd best batting line up in the world, maybe third now before England. But that another discussion.

I can see the point that your trying to make, but be careful that your not using India's batting prowess as an excuse for Lee's poor series against them. I know (guess) this isn't the point that your trying to make, but its sounding almost like your trying to use that as a reason.

 

[chaminda_00]

I can see the point that your trying to make, but be careful that your not using India's batting prowess as an excuse for Lee's poor series against them. I know (guess) this isn't the point that your trying to make, but its sounding almost like your trying to use that as a reason.

Well his injury had more to do with his form then the India batting powess, but it was a factor

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

it might take you a while to realise this, but a part of the vb series was played, yep you guessed it in between the test series. in between the 3rd and 4th tests he played 3 ODIs and took figures of 4/47 ,2/31 and 3/23. then played the test matches and went for 2/70,1/87 , 2/97 and 3/132........

Lee actually bowled really well in the 5th test in that series, even though he didn't get great figures out of it.

Anyway, the point many of us have made about Lee is not that he has suddenly found ODI form that he has never had before (on the contrary he has had a stellar ODI career), but that he is bowling differently. He has better control, more consistent pace, a better action that isn't so low and keeps the fielders behind the stumps in the game more, and he uses his pace and bounce much better. I am convinced that if he returns to tests and bowls like he did in the VB series this year and in New Zealand, he will be a resounding success.

One of the reasons Lee was more successful in ODIs is that batsman couldn't afford to wait for him to tire or bowl bad deliveries, and had to go at him all the time, and even when is at his worst his pace and swing mean that he can be lethal when he gets one in the right spot. The way he is bowling now is more conducive to being successful at test level.

 

[King_Ponting]

if given the oppurtunity to play test cricket in new zealnad this year he would have been devastating. Also brett lee should have played in the match were lehmann and kaspa were dropped for watson and macgill. Watson's debut was absolute rubbish, and dont let anyoe else tell u otherwise, and australia could have benefitted much more with the inclusion of lee, who probably would have scored as many runs as watson anyway and taking a s*itload more wickets.