do you really have such a boner for Murali that you're willing to pretend the lineup of Gooch/Smith/Thorpe/Stewart/Peak Hick/Atherton is on the same level as the lineup of Butcher/Stephen/Ramprakash/Stewart/Tail Ender Hick/Hollioake? Jesus Wept. I like Murali too, just not a fan of rewriting history though
No, I'm not a fan of a chucker, Murali, anyway. But everyone knows that you're moving goalposts to protect your favourites. (You're an absolute sucker for your favourites,jking)I'm not going to discuss this anymore because I have to sleep. Goodnight! Cheers!
Oh Wow, Well that is one way to denounce Murali's whole career. Well, No, I'm not moving goalposts and I'm willing to change my opinion when a good argument is presented (ask @capt_Luffy, I started rating spinners not too long ago), All I've done is mention 3 of the 4 Test class English batters of the era were missing, that's it. Anyway, goodnight.
Taking 16 wickets on a foreign batting wicket is still a phenomenal achievement.
can you quote the post where I said it's not an achievement.
I mean you seemed to be downplaying it.
Yeah I don't agree, I think he has a better spell (8/40) but Warne the bigger series. And the volume is way greater and Murali's average in England flatters him in comparison to anyone who only bowled to first string English lineups. Murali is ATG in England but I don't think as good as people in this thread have made it out to be.
I think Warne benefited more from McGrath upfront who set up games and in 2005, his supposed bigger series, he clearly couldn't restrict England in 1st innings to ratchet up matchwinning scores.
You can't win games by yourself and 2005 was nothing less than Miraculous for England, Warne had game winning performances back in 1993 before McGrath, his 5fer in 97 was not effected by McGrath and it was actually McGrath who benefited at Old Trafford, It was Warne who led the charge at Trent Bridge too in that series, 2001 Trent Bridge and Oval were also mostly a Shane Warne masterclass so I don't think any of his big spells were aided much by Pigeon.
2005 was pretty much England setting up games by bashing Aus in the 1st innings. Warnes deadly effectiveness was pretty much 2nd innings only by which time it was too late. Still a great series but not quite the way it is often portrayed.
Warne got 20 @ 22 in the first innings, that's great imo, Warne in that series was like a one man battering ram vs England.
In the three tests in between when England gained the edge, he was goodish but clearly wasn't as deadly
would you critique McGrath similarly for his second inning record in England?
No because he set up games for wins in England regularly in the 1st innings.
Warne also did so in 1997 and 2001. I can remember 1997 Trent Bridge and Old Trafford by memory.
Sure so I am not critiquing him there. I am specific to 2005 Ashes on 1st innings stuff.
lame.
I'm kind of shocked It was Warne who took over the thread, not Imran.
It only came up because you presented it as if it seals the deal against Murali. It doesn't.
what's Murali's first inning avg against England in 2002/6?