Which overseas bowler is better in these countries?

[Johan]

Beating England is just minnow bashing.

i knew Jim Laker was the GOAT spinner.

 

[Coronis]

i knew Jim Laker was the GOAT spinner.

You know nothing, Jo Han

 

[subshakerz]

If that's at effect, then Warne has another ATG series in 2001.

Fair.

 

[Johan]

wait a second, why are we writing Aldermann? he was Alderman.

 

[Migara]

in England? Nah, the 2005 Ashes is the best bowling I've seen from anyone in England, Oval 1997 was indeed ridiculous tho

Murali's 8/70 easily trumps that whole series. One man demolition job. And the way Murali deconstructed KP over initial shock, in to next few innings is just classic, something that Warne never managed to do.

 

[Johan]

Murali's 8/70 easily trumps that whole series. One man demolition job. And the way Murali deconstructed KP over initial shock, in to next few innings is just classic, something that Warne never managed to do.

One spell isn't beating a 40 wicket series, Warne has 2 ATG serieses in England with multiple match winning performances in the 1990s, Murali has one ATG series, one mid one and one ATG game, Alderman has 2 ATG serieses, it's clear what my ranking would be.

 

[Migara]

One spell isn't beating a 40 wicket series, Warne has 2 ATG serieses in England with multiple match winning performances in the 1990s, Murali has one ATG series, one mid one and one ATG game, Alderman has 2 ATG series, it's clear what my ranking would be.

Murali has 1998 and 2006 series. Both has two ATG series. Warne averages 21.9 in England, and Murali 19.2. And that shows where my rankings are.

 

[Johan]

Murali has 1998 and 2006 series. Both has two ATG series. Warne averages 21.9 in England, and Murali 19.2. And that shows where my rankings are.

The Oval is an ATG game, it was not a series. Warne also took 71 wickets @ 19.3 in 2003/5 ashes.

 

[Migara]

The Oval is an ATG game, it was not a series. Warne also took 71 wickets @ 19.3 in 2003/5 ashes.

There is no point posting number of wickets, when everyone already know Warne played 5 test series instead of 2 test series for Murali. Warne's WPM in England is 5.9. Murali's is 8.0. That is not even a comparison.

 

[Johan]

There is no point posting number of wickets, when everyone already know Warne played 5 test series instead of 2 test series for Murali. Warne's WPM in England is 5.9. Miurali's is 8.0. That is not even a comparison.

Warne in 2003/5 took 71 wickets in 10 games, and therefore taking 7 wickets per match, without McGrath it went up to 40 in 5 games, 8 WPM, Again, clearly relative in England, Warne wins just for having a bigger body of work.

 

[Migara]

And let these numbers sink in

 

[Johan]

Murali first toured England in 1998, right?

 

[Migara]

And this is all spinners who took 20 or more wickets in England. Even if you add Lock and Laker, the most prolific spin combination to play for England, still it's a WPM of 8.4 @ 18.71. Murali by himself a WPM of 8.0 @ 19.2.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Murali first toured England in 1998, right?

View attachment 47399

Murali kinda still has a better average and higher WPM.....

But overall I think it's definitely Warne in England. No fault of Murali's but Warne just has a much bigger body of Work, and he has been consistently excellent across 4 5+ match Series, ATG in 2. Again, Murali had the better spell and th better game, but Warne has the bigger body of work.

 

[Johan]

Murali kinda still has a better average and higher WPM.....

But overall I think it's definitely Warne in England. No fault of Murali's but Warne just has a much bigger body of Work, and he has been consistently excellent across 4 5+ match Series, ATG in 2. Again, Murali had the better spell and th better game, but Warne has the bigger body of work.

Yup, and Alderman over either in England.

 

[Migara]

Warne in 2003/5 took 71 wickets in 10 games, and therefore taking 7 wickets per match, without McGrath it went up to 40 in 5 games, 8 WPM, Again, clearly relative in England, Warne wins just for having a bigger body of work.

Why do you want to compare two best series of Warne to entire career of Murali? Either compare the whole careers or the two most successful series. Either way you take it Murali is leaps ahead.

 

[Johan]

Why do you want to compare two best series of Warne to entire career of Murali? Either compare the whole careers or the two most successful series. Either way you take it Murali is leaps ahead.

When did Murali first tour England?

 

[MasterBlaster24]

In England, Murali was just extraordinary with the ball. In England, Murali essentially did a one-man show with the ball. In England, even Vaas failed to deliver with the ball. There was practically no bowling support at all for Murali in England.

Just look at this

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=2;opposition=1;orderby=wickets;player_involve=2041;team=8;template=results;type=bowling

 

[Migara]

When did Murali first tour England?

What is the relevance? I gave their performances in England. If you add filters, then it has to be meaningful and has to be applied to both.

And since you took two best tours of Warne with 71 wickets in 10 matches at 19.3, did the same for Murali. 4 matches, 40 wickets at 15.6. WPM of 7.1 vs 10. There is not even a comparison.

 

[Johan]

What is the relevance? I gave their performances in England. If you add filters, then it has to be meaningful and has to be applied to both.

And since you took two best tours of Warne with 71 wickets in 10 matches at 19.3, did the same for Murali. 4 matches, 40 wickets at 15.6. WPM of 7.1 vs 10. There is not even a comparison.

it's clear what filter I applied, 1998 and forward considering Murali never even toured before and it's impossible to say how he would've done.

Warne having 10 matches even before Murali ever went to England is a positive for Warne and not a negative for him.

also, as Luffy rightfully said, Warne has a higher body of work, as far as England goes, it goes like this.

1993 Ashes – Very Good, MOM performances
1997 Ashes – Very Good, MOM performances
2001 Ashes – ATG series
2005 Ashes – ATG series, most wickets anyone has taken in a 5 match Ashes in England I think.

1998 Oval Test – ATG game
2002 England tour – Underwhelming series
2006 England tour – ATG series.

You're basically ignoring the bodies of work and insiting it's not close on their raw number, as if it's reasonable to claim Murali would maintain those if he played 21 games instead of 6 when we've direct evidence that it could fluctuate as it did with Warne. Warne still never had a bad outing in England though.