What Australian Team would you select to tour South Africa

[howardj]

Will Symonds actually be fit? I was under the impression he'd be out.

"Although there were some minor signs of wearing, the main problem was loose fragments of cartilage that were jamming in the joint, which were removed," said Cricket Australia doctor Trefor James.

"We will monitor Andrew's progress in the coming weeks, but are hopeful he will become available for selection at some point during the Commonwealth Bank Series against South Africa or New Zealand."

 

[Johnners]

1.Simon Katich

2.Phil Jacques

3.Ricky Ponting ( c )

4.Michael Hussey

5.Michael Clarke

6.David Hussey

7.Brad Haddin ( + )

8.Mitchell Johnson

9.Jason Krezja

10.Peter Siddle

11.Stuart Clark

_____________________

Phil Hughes
Ben Hilfenhaus
Marcus North
Brad Hodge

Cannot understand why the selectors seem to think we need an all rounder in the side. Steve Waugh's 2001 team did not have an all rounder, and they're the best side ever. Furthermore, Jason Krezja and Mitchell Johnson are both reasonable batsmen. If Cameron White can pass as an All Rounder, then i have no doubt that Johnson should be placed in the same category.

The 2001 team might not have had an all-rounder, but it did have an outstanding, experienced, bowling attack, something that cannot be said for the current Australian team. A genuine 5th bowling option, who can also bat top 6/7 would improve the current team ten-fold. That being said, if there is no such option available that would suit the balance of the team, they should be picking the best batsmen available.

Assuming they take a squad of 15, fitness & form permitting:

Katich
Hayden
Ponting
Hussey M
Clarke
North
Haddin
Johnson
Clark
Siddle
Bollinger
--------------------
Jaques
McGain
Hilfenhaus
Hussey D

If Hayden calls it a day, Hughes into the squad, Jaques to open. Don't think they'll pick a squad anything like that, but it's what I'd like to see.

 

[DingDong]

It ****s me to tears that people have still got Hayden in their squad. He:

- is 37 years old
- averaged 20 on the tour of India (where we lost)
- averaged 16 in five Tests in Australia this Summer (where we lost a Series).

That is nine Test matches! He has been given his extended run which should be afforded to a champion. He has had that run.

Anyway, RE the contentious number 6 spot, got a feeling they are likely to go with either Symonds or DHussey.

Yes, you are definitely right howardj. I think you will agree with me when I say somebody like Blizzard or Warner should be selected in the test team. Enough of these boring bat-the-whole-day players. Get somebody who can score a quick 25-30 and see the positive energy flow right down the batting order.

 

[pup11]

I just don't get the Hilfenhaus>Bollinger thing at all. Bollinger is the incumbant, completely unbowled Hilfenhaus last season in the Shield (and this season when he's actually been allowed to play, too) and bowled a lot better in Sydney than his figures suggested. He wasn't awesome but he certainly did okay for a debutant, particularly in the second innings when he was less nervous. Dropping him after one game would be nothing short of ridiculous - obviously things are different if Clark is fit.

Terrible treatment is something he should be used to by now though, I guess.

As for the thread in general, a lot depends on what happens between now and then, IMO. The fitness of both Jaques and McGain - and indeed their form if they make it back in time - are crucial to the makeup of my squad, as is Hayden's form for Queensland between now and then.

Assuming everyone is fit and finds some form, though:

Katich
Hayden
Ponting
M Hussey
Clarke
North
Haddin
Johnson
Siddle
Clark
Bollinger
-------------------------
Jaques
McGain
McDonald
Hilfenhaus

Mate don't get me wrong, i rate Bollinger, even if not as much as Hilfy but i still rate him, i have seen Bollinger bowl a lot of times before the SCG test albeit in OD games, but even though he wasn't as quick in those games as he was in the test match, but still his lengths were immaculate, but in the test match i just don't know what he was trying to achieve, i can understand the nervesnous bit, and him wanting to mix his lengths up, but still he rarely bowled right length in either of the innings, there were slight periods in the first innings when he looked good against Smith and Morkel (when he pitched the ball upto them).

I think Australian bowlers have failed to use either the new ball (conventional swing) or the old ball (reverse swing) too well, and Hilfenhaus certainly can bring some change to that, but still there are a lot of ODI' to be played before the test series in South Africa begins, and whichever bowler out of Bollinger or Hilfenhaus looks in better rhythm in the ODI should get nod for the tests imo...

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

Yes, you are definitely right howardj. I think you will agree with me when I say somebody like Blizzard or Warner should be selected in the test team. Enough of these boring bat-the-whole-day players. Get somebody who can score a quick 25-30 and see the positive energy flow right down the batting order.

 

[Corbin]

That wasn't the sole basis; I also mentioned the fact that he's outperformed Hilfenhaus in Shield cricket and did well on debut. Furthermore, Hilfenhaus wasn't injured when Bollinger was picked originally. I don't see what's changed to put Hilfenhaus ahead of Bollinger - something has to actually change for someone to get dropped. In the Hauritz/McGain case, McGain being fit (before you reply saying he isn't, actually read the rest of my post) is the change. I'll argue the Hauritz case with you if you like but if you've going to compare it to the Bollinger case throughout the whole debate, I'll just ignore you completely because it's completely different.

If he comes back, gets a few games under his belt and takes a few wickets, I'd take him on tour. If he doesn't, then I wouldn't.

I certainly wouldn't be taking Hauritz though, regardless. For mine there's basically no point in picking a spinner at all if he's not going to take advantage on the rare occasion the pitch suits him. I almost see the selection of Hauritz as the Australian selectors cheating themselves - they insist on having a spinner all the time yet they know they don't have one capable of performing well at home so they pick someone who's a spinner in name only, who isn't actually going to be a threat at any stage of the match at all but won't cost much when he's in the attack. Hauritz offers nothing that 40 seam bowlers in the country couldn't offer to the team other than maintenance of over-rates and that's no way to select your Test team.

Not going to argue on Bollinger vs Hilfenhaus because as far as I'm concerned I think they'll both in the squad but if Clark is fit they both probably won't play unless Siddle misfires badly early.

I seem to come under the direct impression that you seem to have a problem with the way that Hauritz assets himself in the FC and Test arena of the structure and plan in which he bowls to. Sure Hauritz isn't a bowler that relies on spinning the ball a lot and bowling attacking lines to take wickets like Krejza, who pretty much has an 'all out attack mode' with no sense of ability to understand when to change to a holding line. It is quite clear that Hauritz relies on the tool of frustrating batsmen using tight lines and a defensive approach for them to eventually lose the temper and force them into to play unnecessary and over extravagant shots. So what if he isn't your stereotype off spinner? Does that make him a bad spinner? Not really, just makes him a different style of player. Who are you to say that every spinner should be the same and bowl attacking with a disregard for an economy rate?!

Hauritz came into the Australian team throughout the NZ and SA series and performed the role in which he was asked to do by the selectors to the required standards. He therefore warrants selection in the side. Had he been asked to perform a different role (similar to that of Krejza whereby take wickets and the other bowlers will hold it down at the other end) then therefore his selection would not be warranted due that he did not fulfill that role to the required standards but that isn't the case so really it's neither here nor there.

His strategy is at the moment more beneficial to the Australian side then that of Krejza and an untried McGain who I believe won't be able to find the same heights as last season after injuring his bowling shoulder until at least next season. I'm all for him going to play county cricket this Australian winter though and being ready for next summer but I personally believe the South African tour and to a much lesser extent the Ashes may be just a bit too soon for him for the Australian selectors to entrust faith into playing him in what is looking like a needed monumental charge into the Ashes series. Winning this series is going to be vitally important for the team morale and pure sake of a winning momentum. Risking that by playing someone who may of only played a few games at club and FC level since returning from injury, who may be what you define as 'fit' and taken a few wickets makes me believe that I highly doubt the confidence would be evident to play someone on debut in such a critical time.

To be frank, McGain is just too old now. Before you call foul with the 'we should play our best team' etc you should know of all people Cribb know that McGain is simply a short term fix. He's almost 37 in a few months and realistically could only possibly play another 2 years IMO and then what would seem a smart career move to head off to the ICL or something of similar nature to become financial secure having missed out throughout his career. Sure he hasn't played a lot of FC cricket due to only really breaking onto the scene after almost 15 years in Melbourne club cricket IIRC, but with the way that fitness is moving in sport worldwide with younger talents breaking through who have supreme fitness levels to that of the previous generation. Sorry to burst your bubble Rob but I think it should be said that common sense must prevail here and say that the time has just come too late for McGain. He will simply soon be known as someone who was a wasted talent who didn't break onto the scene earlier. I just don't think he will be able to hold the required fitness levels up there for the International level, I mean be honest with yourself Rob, he had the surgery in mid October, are you realistically telling me that an athlete of his age will be able to recover successfully from that in a 3-4 month period and reach the bowling standard required to perform successfully on the international stage? Probably not. It doesn't matter whether he has played cricket or not. The older you get in life the longer it takes for muscles to repair.

Like I have said to you before regarding Krejza. If he can develop another aspect of his game in which he can successfully switch to a defensive mode and possibly get some variation to add to his already exquisite stock ball. I'll be then more than happy to see him back in the side over Hauritz at Test level. Until then Hauritz is the spinner who best suits the balance needed for the Australian side in a time of transition and change in the next 6-12 months. The selectors heads are on the chopping block at the moment and I would assume that their positions are safe until at least the Ashes. They have the South African series and the Ashes to bring together the results. Had they brought Krejza into the Sydney test my opinion might of been otherwise but I think you'll find they could shut the door completely on McGain and Krejza just for now and keep faith in Hauritz.

 

[Corbin]

Will Symonds actually be fit? I was under the impression he'd be out.

I was under the similar impression he would be too.

 

[Prince EWS]

I seem to come under the direct impression that you seem to have a problem with the way that Hauritz assets himself in the FC and Test arena of the structure and plan in which he bowls to. Sure Hauritz isn't a bowler that relies on spinning the ball a lot and bowling attacking lines to take wickets like Krejza, who pretty much has an 'all out attack mode' with no sense of ability to understand when to change to a holding line. It is quite clear that Hauritz relies on the tool of frustrating batsmen using tight lines and a defensive approach for them to eventually lose the temper and force them into to play unnecessary and over extravagant shots. So what if he isn't your stereotype off spinner? Does that make him a bad spinner? Not really, just makes him a different style of player. Who are you to say that every spinner should be the same and bowl attacking with a disregard for an economy rate?!

No, I'm saying a bowler who averages 50 odd against decent batting lineups and bowls completely for batsman error is crap. He's not picked because he's one of our best bowlers - because he wouldn't be in the top 30 - he's picked because he's a spinner, yet he doesn't actually provide any of the advantages that having a spinner actually provides as he can't take advantage of spin-friendly conditions.

His strategy is at the moment more beneficial to the Australian side then that of Krejza and an untried McGain who I believe won't be able to find the same heights as last season after injuring his bowling shoulder until at least next season.

Hauritz v Krejza isn't the issue here. I wouldn't pick Krejza either unless the pitch was going to be a raging turner and that's not going to happen in South Africa so I wouldn't be taking him on tour. If you're right about McGain, he'll perform poorly in the Shield before the tour (or not make it back to the Shield at all before the tour..) and if that happened, I wouldn't pick him. This selection is completely conditional on him making a return to the Shield and doing well. If that doesn't happen, he's not going to be in my touring squad. Even if you knock McGain on the head though, I still wouldn't pick Hauritz - I'd just take another quick.

His strategy is at the moment more beneficial to the Australian side then that of Krejza

Perhaps, but it's far less benefitial to the Australian side than that of someone who can actually take wickets in Australian and South African conditions.

 

[Dan]

Assuming a squad of 15

M Hayden - Selectors like him, will go and play unless he announces his retirement
P Jaques - He will slot back in as an opener
P Hughes - Cover for the openers

R Ponting - He's the captain
M Clarke - He's the Vice-Captain
S Katich - He's in great form, but the openers spot is taken...
M Hussey - He's Mike Hussey...
D Hussey - Just give him a go already!!!

B Haddin - He's the best Keeper in the country

M Johnson - 8/61
S Clark - 20 wickets last time he was in South Africa for tests
P Siddle - He took a Michelle.
D Bollinger - Bowled his heart out
N Bracken - An experienced face who can take wickets and control the flow of runs

Hauritz - He's probably the best spinner in the country under the age of 36


This gives you a starting side of:

Hayden
Jaques
Ponting
Clarke
Hussey
Katich
Haddin
Johnson
Bracken
Clark
Siddle/Bollinger/Hauritz


It probably isn't ideal to play Katich in the middle order, let alone number 6, but they'll want Jaques back in the team. If jaques doesn't play, move Kativh back to opening and slot in Dave Hussey.

 

[Prince EWS]

Assuming a squad of 15

M Hayden - Selectors like him, will go and play unless he announces his retirement
P Jaques - He will slot back in as an opener
P Hughes - Cover for the openers

R Ponting - He's the captain
M Clarke - He's the Vice-Captain
S Katich - He's in great form, but the openers spot is taken...
M Hussey - He's Mike Hussey...
D Hussey - Just give him a go already!!!

B Haddin - He's the best Keeper in the country

M Johnson - 8/61
S Clark - 20 wickets last time he was in South Africa for tests
P Siddle - He took a Michelle.
D Bollinger - Bowled his heart out
N Bracken - An experienced face who can take wickets and control the flow of runs

Hauritz - He's probably the best spinner in the country under the age of 36


This gives you a starting side of:

Hayden
Jaques
Ponting
Clarke
Hussey
Katich
Haddin
Johnson
Bracken
Clark
Siddle/Bollinger/Hauritz


It probably isn't ideal to play Katich in the middle order, let alone number 6, but they'll want Jaques back in the team. If jaques doesn't play, move Kativh back to opening and slot in Dave Hussey.

Jaques was actually dropped for Katich before he got injured, it should be noted. If they want Jaques back in the team that badly, they will drop Hayden.

 

[James90]

My 15:

Simon Katich
Michael Hussey
Ricky Ponting (c)
Brad Hodge
Michael Clarke
David Hussey
Brad Haddin
Mitchell Johnson
Peter Siddle
Stuart Clark
Doug Bollinger
---
Jason Krejza
Ben Hilfenhaus
Phillip Hughes
Tim Paine

Symonds can gagf!

 

[john18]

Now to the One Day and Twenty20 Team

This would be mine

ODI and Twenty20: Shaun Marsh, James Hopes, Ricky Ponting (c), Michael Clarke (vc), Mike Hussey, David Hussey, Brad Haddin (wk), Mitchell Johnson, Nathan Bracken, Peter Siddle, Nathan Hauritz, Ben Hilfenhaus, Shaun Tait, Cameron White.

 

[howardj]

The 2001 team might not have had an all-rounder, but it did have an outstanding, experienced, bowling attack, something that cannot be said for the current Australian team. A genuine 5th bowling option, who can also bat top 6/7 would improve the current team ten-fold. That being said, if there is no such option available that would suit the balance of the team, they should be picking the best batsmen available.

Assuming they take a squad of 15, fitness & form permitting:

Katich
Hayden
Ponting
Hussey M
Clarke
North
Haddin
Johnson
Clark
Siddle
Bollinger
--------------------
Jaques
McGain
Hilfenhaus
Hussey D

If Hayden calls it a day, Hughes into the squad, Jaques to open. Don't think they'll pick a squad anything like that, but it's what I'd like to see.

Anybody with any cricket knowledge knows that eight specialist batsmen (even if a couple can bowl offspinners) don't get picked for a three Test tour.

Nice one.

 

[howardj]

Now to the One Day and Twenty20 Team

This would be mine

ODI and Twenty20: Shaun Marsh, James Hopes, Ricky Ponting (c), Michael Clarke (vc), Mike Hussey, David Hussey, Brad Haddin (wk), Mitchell Johnson, Nathan Bracken, Peter Siddle, Nathan Hauritz, Ben Hilfenhaus, Shaun Tait, Cameron White.

Problem I have with Marsh and Hopes opening together is that it's well known that you want your best batsmen facing the vast bulk of the overs in an ODI. So why would you have two of your worst batsmen (excluding the bowlers) in the squad opening and taking a big chunk of the overs?

 

[john18]

Fixtures
Australia tour of South Africa, 2008/09

Tour match: Friday 20th Febuary - Sunday 22nd February, South Africa A v Australians, Senwes Park, Potchefstroom
1st Test: Thursday 26th February - Monday 2nd March , South Africa v Australia, New Wanderers Stadium, Johannesburg
2nd Test: Friday 6th March - Tuesday 10th March, South Africa v Australia, Kingsmead, Durban
3rd Test: Thursday 19th March - Monday 23rd March, South Africa v Australia, Newlands, Cape Town

1st Twenty20 International: Friday 27th March D/N, South Africa v Australia, New Wanderers Stadium, Johannesburg
2nd Twenty20 International: Sunday 29th March D/N, South Africa v Australia, SuperSport Park, Centurion

1st ODI: Friday 3rd April D/N, South Africa v Australia, Kingsmead, Durban
2nd ODI: Sunday 5th April, South Africa v Australia, SuperSport Park, Centurion
3rd ODI: Thursday 9th April D/N, South Africa v Australia, Newlands, Cape Town
4th ODI: Monday 13th April, South Africa v Australia, St George's Park, Port Elizabeth
5th ODI: Friday 17th April D/N, South Africa v Australia, New Wanderers Stadium, Johannesburg

 

[Johnners]

Anybody with any cricket knowledge knows that eight specialist batsmen (even if a couple can bowl offspinners) don't get picked for a three Test tour.

Nice one.

someones got their knife out.

 

[john18]

Problem I have with Marsh and Hopes opening together is that it's well known that you want your best batsmen facing the vast bulk of the overs in an ODI. So why would you have two of your worst batsmen (excluding the bowlers) in the squad opening and taking a big chunk of the overs?

If you think Marsh and Hopes aren't good at opening then who should? Shane Watson is out with a back injury and Matthew Hayden has just been droped from the One Day team.

 

[howardj]

If you think Marsh and Hopes aren't good at opening then who should? Shane Watson is out with a back injury and Matthew Hayden has just been droped from the One Day team.

I wouldn't have both that's all.

If you look at the really good ODI teams, they always have one of their best players opening up. Tendulkar, Gilchrist, Gibbs etc etc.

 

[john18]

Then who would you pick to open the batting for Australia in ODI.

 

[pup11]

Now to the One Day and Twenty20 Team

This would be mine

ODI and Twenty20: Shaun Marsh, James Hopes, Ricky Ponting (c), Michael Clarke (vc), Mike Hussey, David Hussey, Brad Haddin (wk), Mitchell Johnson, Nathan Bracken, Peter Siddle, Nathan Hauritz, Ben Hilfenhaus, Shaun Tait, Cameron White.

I can see from where some people are coming from when they call for Symonds to be dropped from the test side, but there is no way Symonds should be dropped from the ODI or T20 sides, he is arguably one of the best, if not the best, limited overs cricketer Australia currently have.