What 3 players would u want exchanged from ur team?

[Dasa]

If the Indian team needs a bowling all-rounder, why Flintoff? Why not Pollock, Cairns, Bichel or Brett Lee? Flintoff is as good as all the Agarkar's, Pathans and Balajis, but the Southern Hemisphere trio are far better.

Lee and Bichel all-rounders???? I don't think so. I also do not think Pathan and Balaji are all-rounders, nor should they be. All of the above are marginally useful batsmen at best, can't compare to Flintoff, Pollock or Cairns.

 

[tooextracool]

why would you pick a player only to teach him the basics.
IF he improves in these conditions then we can have this discussion.

the thing that you fail to realise time and time again is that he has improved.....

didnt i mention this my second post of this thread. yuvraj is an odi batsman. i was using flintoff's test avg. just to prove that he cant play spin whic is imp. for an indian batsman.

the point of looking at his test record to judge whether or not he is a good play at the test level is nothing short of stupid.....according to your methods bevan is a useless ODI player then.

and his odi record (in sub-continent) isnt any better either. yuvraj has proved he is consistent on different surfaces.

yes and despite all of that both of them have similar batting averages.....

langer who has smashed many bolwers (inc. sa, eng etc) falls prey for who AA

except that flintoff has no problems against these bowlers when he plays them at home unlike langer.

 

[tooextracool]

yuvraj has been pretty consistent since his return to the side

and within that same time period as has flintoff.....

 

[tooextracool]

two words - jacques kallis. great record in general and even better in subcontinent. he can replace any one in the indian team other than dravid and sachin.

except that his bowling is so bad ATM he could barely even be considered to be a 5th bowler....and he is a complete waste at no 6.

 

[tooextracool]

If the Indian team needs a bowling all-rounder, why Flintoff? Why not Pollock, Cairns, Bichel or Brett Lee?

flintoff has a much better batting average in ODIs than pollock and his bowling average is just a tad worse. i dont think pollock is a capable no 6 batsman anyways.
as far as cairns goes flintoff has a better batting and bowling average than cairns.
bichel is basically useless....
brett lee isnt an all rounder......

Flintoff is as good as all the Agarkar's, Pathans and Balajis, but the Southern Hemisphere trio are far better.

now you're just making a fool of yourself....

 

[Mingster]

Harmisson for Tuffey
H Singh for Vettori
Ponting for McMilllan

 

[Raj123]

except that his bowling is so bad ATM he could barely even be considered to be a 5th bowler....and he is a complete waste at no 6.

yet he seems to be the first choice allrounder for pretty much all the current world XI sides.

 

[Raj123]

the thing that you fail to realise time and time again is that he has improved.....

marginally(if any).. but not good enough for someone who plays here day in and day out

the point of looking at his test record to judge whether or not he is a good play at the test level is nothing short of stupid.....according to your methods bevan is a useless ODI player then.

read your post a couple of times and tell me if it sounds as ridiculous to you as it is to me.
if you dont judge a test player by his test record what do you do. see how well he did in his school days. and me using flintoff's test (&odi) record in subcontinent to show he cant play spin somehow implies bevan is a useless ODI player.

yes and despite all of that both of them have similar batting averages.....

again, its called consistency. flintoff makes up for his lack of ability to play spin through good scores elsewhere. but thats not good enough for indian players

except that flintoff has no problems against these bowlers when he plays them at home unlike langer.

can you understand the difference between home and subcontinent in this context

 

[tooextracool]

yet he seems to be the first choice allrounder for pretty much all the current world XI sides.

he is picked for his batting abilities, his bowling his handy but definetly not something to be relied upon. and only a fool would have kallis batting at 6....

 

[Arjun]

flintoff has a much better batting average in ODIs than pollock and his bowling average is just a tad worse. i dont think pollock is a capable no 6 batsman anyways.
as far as cairns goes flintoff has a better batting and bowling average than cairns.
bichel is basically useless....
brett lee isnt an all rounder......

Flintoff, given England's lack of depth in batting, has to go higher up, so he gets more opportunities. However, the Indians play 6 or 7 batsmen in the team, and a wicketkeeper at 7 if he plays, so the bowlers don't get enough opportunities to bat, nor does Shaun Pollock, playing below Gibbs, Kirsten, Kallis, Rhodes, Cullinan, Klusener, Mark Boucher and Nicky Boje. He can fit into the number 6/7 of any team. He has not got the opportunities. As a former Indian Test player would say, you have to keep the windows open to taste sunlight.

Cairns is a strike bowler who can bat, and bat really well. Flintoff is a middle overs bowler, where he can stay safe, so his average is marginally better, but play him as a lead bowler and things will change. With Cairns, it was a manageable 4/5 and he did it quite well.

Bichel is NOT useless by any means. With the strike bowlers getting hammered a little and another strike bowler out injured, Bichel took the lead by taking 7 wickets in PE and even played a hand in a match-winning partnership. He also scored a decisive 50 in PE in the super 6's. Any captain would want to have him.

Brett Lee, like Pathan and Balaji, is a POTENTIAL all-rounder. He has always worked at improving his batting and given a chance, he can score a quick 20-30 or even a quick 50. The sixes he hits are also quite decisive, as those two last ball sixes off Oram deflated NZ. Anyone would willingly trade Agarkar for Lee.

 

[Raj123]

he is picked for his batting abilities, his bowling his handy but definetly not something to be relied upon. and only a fool would have kallis batting at 6....

here we go again. everyone in this world is a fool except for tec. i mean, you'd have to be an idiot to pick some with an average of 90 in the recent past at no.6

 

[tooextracool]

marginally(if any).. but not good enough for someone who plays here day in and day out

yes a jump of about 20 runs in average in just 6 games is definetly what you call 'marginal'......and if he plays day in and day out hes also going to improve just like he did after 6 games....

read your post a couple of times and tell me if it sounds as ridiculous to you as it is to me.
if you dont judge a test player by his test record what do you do.

do you know what you are talking about at all?it seems that whenever you feel convenient you look at flintoff's test record and then when you feel like it again you look at his ODI record. a number of people have been pointing out that we were looking at the exchange in ODIs so stop looking at what he has done in the tests!!

and me using flintoff's test (&odi) record in subcontinent to show he cant play spin somehow implies bevan is a useless ODI player.

the point that you barely seem to understand is that the slow turning wickets of test matches in the sub continent are completely different from the flat lifeless ODI wickets in the sub continent. what flintoff did in tests has absolutely no relation of what he can do in the ODIs because the wickets are a lot flatter and dont offer anything much for the spinners.

again, its called consistency. flintoff makes up for his lack of ability to play spin through good scores elsewhere. but thats not good enough for indian players

and yuvraj's brilliant record on those seaming wickets goes for nothing does it?

can you understand the difference between home and subcontinent in this context

eh?do you read at all? my point was that langer has a problem against agarkar both home and away whereas flintoff who doesnt seem to have a problem against spinners(outside the sub continent) at home will not have any problems against them in the sub continent.
and all this doesnt count for nothing because the plain fact is that flintoff going to come across plenty of lifeless pitches and batting paradises in india in the ODIs not turning wickets!!!you seem to have a lot of difficulty understanding the differences between test match wickets and ODI wickets!

 

[tooextracool]

here we go again. everyone in this world is a fool except for tec. i mean, you'd have to be an idiot to pick some with an average of 90 in the recent past at no.6

will you ever understand the difference between tests and ODIs??
we are talking about replacing yuvraj singh who bats at 6 in ODIS so the point of replacing him with kallis who bats at 3 or 4 would be?

 

[Raj123]

will you ever understand the difference between tests and ODIs??
we are talking about replacing yuvraj singh who bats at 6 in ODIS so the point of replacing him with kallis who bats at 3 or 4 would be?

strengthen the batting lineup. duh.
if he cant play down the order (which i dont think is the case), gangs can be pushed down.

 

[Raj123]

do you know what you are talking about at all?it seems that whenever you feel convenient you look at flintoff's test record and then when you feel like it again you look at his ODI record. a number of people have been pointing out that we were looking at the exchange in ODIs so stop looking at what he has done in the tests!!!

first lets get some thing right. you are replying here to a comment that i made when you posted this:

the point of looking at his test record to judge whether or not he is a good play at the test level is nothing short of stupid

which is not just absurd but completely different from what you are you rambling on about now.
now if you want me to just look at his odi record, he has played only a single game in SL( and none in india) in the recent years that you say he has improved. so he hasnt proved himself and hence cant be taken into the indian side with conviction.

my point was that langer has a problem against agarkar both home and away [\QUOTE]
if i remember it right agarkar played only one match in the 2001 series and langer was dismissed cheaply by harb. in that match.

 

[ReallyCrazy]

1. ajit agarkar
2. ajit agarkar
3. ajit agarkar

i will exchange ajit agarkar with anyone.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

1. ajit agarkar
2. ajit agarkar
3. ajit agarkar

i will exchange ajit agarkar with anyone.

Would you keep Balaji and Nehra who have much worse bowling averages and SRs than Agarkar?

 

[ReallyCrazy]

balaji has just started and i think he will get better. his ave is 2 lower and SR 1 higher than agarkar. Nehra is more reliable than agarkar. If 10 runs are needed off the last over and nehra bowls, he might be able to win the game but agarkar man even i can smash him.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

balaji has just started and i think he will get better. his ave is 2 lower and SR 1 higher than agarkar. Nehra is more reliable than agarkar. If 10 runs are needed off the last over and nehra bowls, he might be able to win the game but agarkar man even i can smash him.

I was referring to ODIs, where I consider AA a specialist.

Balaji averages 39.73 with the ball in ODIs.
Agarkar averages 27.79.

 

[ReallyCrazy]

well balaji has played only a few matches. agarkar after having played so many matches, should not be having an econ of over 5. im sure balaji will be better than agarkar in the days to come