Viv Richards vs Sachin Tendulkar (against fast bowling)

[subshakerz]

Agreed.

I think he was great but not sure about ATG.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

I think he was great but not sure about ATG.

He was great but not in the same catergory as your Sehwags or Sachins or Laras vs spin.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Ever ...

Better than Bradman?

 

[Sliferxxxx]

Better than Bradman?

Probably not.

 

[silentstriker]

I think if you compare absolute peaks, Viv was better. Sachin's major strength was his longevity and facing Test pace attacks that included Malcolm Marshall as well as Mitchell Starc - and everyone in between. But if you had to pick a player at their absolute peak for one Test match vs fast bowling, you have to go with Viv. For their careers, I would take Tendulkar.

 

[Johan]

I think if you compare absolute peaks, Viv was better. Sachin's major strength was his longevity and facing Test pace attacks that included Malcolm Marshall as well as Mitchell Starc - and everyone in between. But if you had to pick a player at their absolute peak for one Test match vs fast bowling, you have to go with Viv. For their careers, I would take Tendulkar.

that's kind of true for the entire comparison tbh. If broken down to bowling, I think Viv was better throughout his career against pace (until, 88/89) while Sachin was better throughout his career against spin (2010/11).

 

[Sliferxxxx]

I think if you compare absolute peaks, Viv was better. Sachin's major strength was his longevity and facing Test pace attacks that included Malcolm Marshall as well as Mitchell Starc - and everyone in between. But if you had to pick a player at their absolute peak for one Test match vs fast bowling, you have to go with Viv. For their careers, I would take Tendulkar.

Sachin faced Marshall in tests?? I know he did in ODIs.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

The thing about Viv why I put him above most others is you can name any very good/great fast bowler Viv faced and be had at least one (sometimes more) very good to great series vs them (ie averaged over 50). And there was a time where he faced arguably the best pace bowler from each country (except England). He faced Lillee, Imran, Wasim, Hadlee and Dev.

Sachin never quite did the same vs either of the Donald's or the Ws. To his credit, he did have good series vs McGrath, Ambrose and Walsh and great ones vs Steyn.

 

[Johan]

The thing about Viv why I put him above most others is you can name any very good/great fast bowler Viv faced and be had at least one (sometimes more) very good to great series vs them (ie averaged over 50). And there was a time where he faced arguably the best pace bowler from each country (except England). He faced Lillee, Imran, Wasim, Hadlee and Dev.

Sachin never quite did the same vs either of the Donald's or the Ws. To his credit, he did have good series vs McGrath, Ambrose and Walsh and great ones vs Steyn.

don't really think Sachin ever dominated the great pacers of his time right up until Steyn in 2010

 

[Johan]

I don't know where the perception came from that Viv wasn't ATG vs spin. Sachin was better obviously, but by similar or only slightly larger margins as Viv has over him to pace.

purely because he didn't get to play elite levels of spin while Sachin had Warne who he smashed around, and was less successful against a matured Muralidharan but the raw statistical perception gives that vibe. If Viv had a Warne or Murali to smash around, he would have and would have the perception of being the same tier as SRT against spin.

 

[silentstriker]

Sachin faced Marshall in tests?? I know he did in ODIs.

You know, now that you say it, I can’t recall a specific instance. So I think you’re right. I was born in 1984 so I don’t remember much from that era and it’s all a bit fuzzy. As you say, I do know they played in ODIs.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

You know, now that you say it, I can’t recall a specific instance. So I think you’re right. I was born in 1984 so I don’t remember much from that era and it’s all a bit fuzzy. As you say, I do know they played in ODIs.

No worries.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

don't really think Sachin ever dominated the great pacers of his time right up until Steyn in 2010

He did very well vs Walsh and Ambrose but he definitely never dominated them. The Ws, well he had one great innings vs them but never dominated them over the course of a series. Donald he never dominated for a series at all but did have I believe, two great innings McGrath he did well against but never dominated. Apparently he dominated Steym so respect to him for that. Of course he tortured Warne and generally won his battles bs Murali. Overall, arguably the 2nd best batsman ever.

 

[Johan]

He did very well vs Walsh and Ambrose but he definitely never dominated them. The Ws, well he had one great innings vs them but never dominated them over the course of a series. Donald he never dominated for a series at all but did have I believe, two great innings McGrath he did well against but never dominated. Apparently he dominated Steym so respect to him for that. Of course he tortured Warne and generally won his battles bs Murali. Overall, arguably the 2nd best batsman ever.

after 1998 Oval spell Murali really became a good bowler, not sure how true it would be to say that Sachin won the clashes after that

 

[Sliferxxxx]

after 1998 Oval spell Murali really became a good bowler, not sure how true it would be to say that Sachin won the clashes after that

Admittedly, I didn't follow Sachins matches vs Murali that much.

 

[Johan]

Admittedly, I didn't follow Sachins matches vs Murali that much.

in games with Murali present, Sachin averages 48, but we all know Murali was not a monster until he bowled that spell in the Oval and the India vs Sri Lanka games of the 90s were played on some of the flattest wickets known to man. Up until 1st January 1998, Sachin averaged 71 in games with Murali present but after 1st January 1998, Sachin averaged 35 in games with Murali. of the 16 dismissals, 6 came off of Muralitharan, a 37.5% dismissal rate. I think It's actually Murali who is the winner of that matchup, atleast when he got good.

 

[subshakerz]

don't really think Sachin ever dominated the great pacers of his time right up until Steyn in 2010

Didn't dominate but did pretty well vs McGrath. Also Pollock and Walsh though not sure they qualify.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

Didn't dominate but did pretty well vs McGrath. Also Pollock and Walsh though not sure they qualify.

Walsh and Pollock are great, just not in the top rung.

 

[vidiq]

Walsh and Pollock are great, just not in the top rung.

But Waqar is always get clubbed with Wasim (as we often check performance against 2 W).

 

[Coronis]

in games with Murali present, Sachin averages 48, but we all know Murali was not a monster until he bowled that spell in the Oval and the India vs Sri Lanka games of the 90s were played on some of the flattest wickets known to man. Up until 1st January 1998, Sachin averaged 71 in games with Murali present but after 1st January 1998, Sachin averaged 35 in games with Murali. of the 16 dismissals, 6 came off of Muralitharan, a 37.5% dismissal rate. I think It's actually Murali who is the winner of that matchup, atleast when he got good.

I mean if you’re going to exclude a period before Murali “got good” you should exclude Sachin’s period where he wasn’t good, no?