UK vs World / Jayasuriya

[marc71178]

Do you not get it.

The fact that he now gets far more tail-enders wickets than he did before surely indicates he bowls more to tail-enders than he ever did before.

Which is my initial argument, which despite proving it with facts you choose to ignore.

You accuse me of coming up with "more twisted stuff" when I'm wrong in an argument and then, when you're proved wrong on the tailender point, you start asking questions such as "Why doesn't McGrath get stumpings", "Why doesn't Warne break bones" and "Why didn't Don Bradman score a century against Bangladesh". So what are those questions then?

 

[Neil Pickup]

Those questions are an attempt at humour whereby scorpio suggests that you talk rubbish. Evasion of the issue.

 

[Neil Pickup]

And as for talking rubbish:

You say he brings on himself only when tailenders come on.

I SAY HE DOESNT. AND I POST STATS WHICH SHOW CLEARLY.

Then You twist it coming up with a new argument saying you meant it during his captaincy. And finally decide to post some stats. Which actually make my point seem correct

Erm... how can he bring himself on when he isn't captain?
Keep Digging.

 

[scorpio]

Neil:

It tells me that there's been a 65% increase in the amount of tailenders he gets since he's been captain.



It also tells me that Srilanka had crap opening bowlers and a not yet mature muralitharan.(Until recently only vaas and murali were any good). So he bowled much earlier.

It tells me that with the presence of ZOYSA,FERNANDO,BUDDIKA and Improving VAAS and a all conquering MURALI...Jayasuriya doesnt have to bowl much or bring himself on early.

I think that makes a lot of sense...right ?

He didnt say he sucks...but both of you implied that he did.

Tell me I wrote he was an allrounder
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I don't recall you saying this. But let's clear up the tailenders first.





You wont recall coz i didnt say that. Marc just took my quote "he is a batsman who can bowl" into he is a allrounder as it would give his lie a little support.

 

[scorpio]

Do you not get it.



I certainly do...much better than u...thx

The fact that he now gets far more tail-enders wickets than he did before surely indicates he bowls more to tail-enders than he ever did before.



Read my previous post addressed to Neil

Which is my initial argument, which despite proving it with facts you choose to ignore.

You proved "with facts" that you were and are wrong. Here is one of you quotes.

quote:
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Originally posted by Marc71178

All Jayasuriya does is throw the ball to Murali, then put himself on when numbers 9, 10 and 11 are in so he can get some cheap wickets.
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Have you proved it ? No you proved that he takes only a third of wickets as tailenders....which my frd is only 2 percentage points above saqlain. Shall we say he is crap? No ..he takes them coz..he like jayasuriya bowls at the death.

You accuse me of coming up with "more twisted stuff" when I'm wrong in an argument and then, when you're proved wrong on the tailender point, you start asking questions such as "Why doesn't McGrath get stumpings", "Why doesn't Warne break bones" and "Why didn't Don Bradman score a century against Bangladesh". So what are those questions then?

You did come up with twisted stuff. Regarding the "Allrounder thing". Plz refesh ur memory. You didnt apologize for making up stuff. In my book thts twisted.

I came up with those questions when i applied your logic. U say a bowler who alwys bowls during the death takes only tailenders...i ask why a fast bowler like mcgrath not have a single stumping ?

If yours makes sense..mine does too..

Read my post addressed to Neil for further clarification. (In a way SL bowlers have improved ...thus they get a larger share of top order batsmen)


[Edited on 9/1/02 by scorpio]

 

[scorpio]

Neil: I think i misunderstood that part about bringing him "on". My mistake..apologies to both of u.

But my arguments still stand. There is not a conscious decision to come on only when tailenders bat.

 

[Neil Pickup]

There may not be a conscious decision to come on when the tail's in, but...

Why not Russel Arnold? As a bowler he is Jayasuriya's equal. And Jayawardene can be on his day. Or letting one of the senior bowlers come back and knock the tail over?

Take the Morocco Cup game SA-SL.

Vaas, Gunaratne, Fernando, Murali and de Silva all had overs left. But he bowled himself and knocked over 9/10/11.

 

[scorpio]

Oh now it gets interesting....Thts quite a intelligent conclusion...heh..

Lets see you see one match .Where he comes at the slog...(Usually Tailenders are not good nuff to get a bat on a murali or a vaas). Jayasuriya's straight forward spinners blows them off..

You complain that he didnt give others a chance. Is that even a argument?

So should McGrath not play against Bangladesh since any one can get wickets? Or why is Ganguly being selfish by batting at 5...he should come in open the innings...right?

Every one does what they are good at. If he had come in and not gotten their wickets..u can complain...he came and did the job. SO whts ur beef then ?

 

[Neil Pickup]

Should McGrath not play against Bangladesh because anyone can get wickets

You've missed the point totally.

Tailenders tend not to put up resistance so most bowlers of any degree of competence would knock them over. However, the better ones will knock them off faster. But Jayasuriya rarely uses them again after they have got SL into a winning position - he knocks off the tail himself.

And...

He's been Captain for 88 matches: 25 tail wickets. Or 0.284 per match.
Before he was captain, he played 182 matches and took.. 34 tail wickets. 0.186 per match.

 

[scorpio]

I guess you are the one who is missing the point here.

I said...srilankan bowling has been strengthened. (not gonna list the names again..they are bloody long )

So how abt may be he thinks he doesnt need to bring on his mediocre stuff unless required..or when he could give his bowlers a rest...or do wht he is good at - bowling at the death ?

U guys made up the whole decision on a single match. How abt he decided to give himself a bowl in a dead match to get back to form? Or to help consolidate his position..wickets surely dont do any harm.

Despite your claim..considering when he comes to bowl it is still a good strike rate of top batsmen.

Or do you two have any other matches where he got only tailenders ? With which we can form a more factual opinion...

 

[marc71178]

Those questions are an attempt at humour whereby scorpio suggests that you talk rubbish. Evasion of the issue.

You can't be right there. It's only us that evade the issue - Scorpio can just post whatever he likes because he's always right isn't he?

 

[marc71178]

You did come up with twisted stuff. Regarding the "Allrounder thing". Plz refesh ur memory. You didnt apologize for making up stuff. In my book thts twisted.

You asked where you'd said he wasn't an all-rounder, I showed you.

The first person who mentioned anything abouut all-rounders was you, when for some reason you compared him with Gilchrist and asked why GIlchrist was regarded as an all-rounder, but Jayasuriya was over-rated.

Now where there have I made things up?

 

[marc71178]

I came up with those questions when i applied your logic. U say a bowler who alwys bowls during the death takes only tailenders...i ask why a fast bowler like mcgrath not have a single stumping ?

Where have I mentioned him always bowling at the death?

Oh that's right, I never have - that's you who harps on about that point isn't it?

IE - the recent SA game - Jayasuriya brings himself on in about the 36th over, with SA around 140-7 needing 267 - ie they need over 8 an over with 3 wickets left. Doesn't look to me like the death there then.

England last winter, he comes on around the 35th over with England 115-7. Real death bowling with England slogging that isn't it?

India last winter - he comes on around the 35th over with India 6 down needing 10 an over to win.

India in this years Natwest - he comes on after 20 overs - that little known mid-innings death bowling?

Morocco vs Pak last month - halfway through the innings Pak are struggling at 82-4 chasing 243.

On he comes, and bowls 2 overs for 20. Right at the death of that innings I don't think.

 

[marc71178]

Right, so if you post stats we must sit up and take notice (despite their irrelevance to the question).

When I post stats which take into account the point we're debating they're wrong are they?

Nice logic that, but we're used to it by now.

Under the law I can now see that you are never wrong.

 

[Legglancer]

Scorpio, You've won this argument whithout
question. I thought Neil and marc had a point
at the start ... but their argument was tainted
from the start. Consider this, Its a matter of fact
that Nassar has potentially lost countless matchers
for england by going at no 3 or 4 and stalling
all the momentum achieved by tresco, knight when
Thorpe (being englands best batsman) could
have done much better even when out of form.

Jayasuriya is very intelligent bowler who has
managed to be successful against all batsman.
He maybe not as effective on bouncy fast paced
wickets as in the subcontinent but he is way better
than these two jokers (marc and neil) give him credit for

 

[scorpio]

Marc...got busy at work..will trash ur arguments later this evenin...LG..thx for seeing the obvious..

 

[marc71178]

Consider this, Its a matter of fact
that Nassar has potentially lost countless matchers for england by going at no 3 or 4 and stalling all the momentum achieved by tresco, knight when
Thorpe (being englands best batsman) could
have done much better even when out of form.

This is the same Thorpe who in ODI's plays in a very similar manner to Nasser (places the ball for runs, doesn't slog) is it?

The same Thorpe who, since Hussain became an ODI regular, averages 29.7, compared with Hussain's average of 37.9?

Incidentally, Nasser averages 41 batting at number 3 - which is clearly terrible and has cost England so many games!

 

[Legglancer]

Once again marc has lost the plot ! It really does not help much if you score 40 and
in doing so useup 80 balls theirby lose all the initiative that has been built by the openers and then getting out trying to force the pace. The batsman's individual average notwithstanding the team suffers.

Anyways the original contention is about Jayasuriya's bowling ability where marc and his sidekick has made a pathertic attempt to discredit .... unsuccsessfully !

 

[scorpio]

You asked where you'd said he wasn't an all-rounder, I showed you.

Unless you are 4 yr old who thinks the world goes dark when you close your eyes....you will know that it is a blatant lie.

I POSTED HE IS A BATSMAN WHO CAN BOWL.

You decided to read it as he is a allrounder. I explained that point further by giving examples. Read above to find em. (HINT:SCROLL BUTTON)

Where have I mentioned him always bowling at the death?

Oh that's right, I never have - that's you who harps on about that point isn't it?

Ofcourse you didnt post that coz you dont watch matches. I posted it as one of the reasons he gets a little more tailenders than others. Instead you have chosen to twist that (Or may be you didnt understand)

If you want i can repeat s-l-o-w-l-y.

 

[scorpio]

You have posted a few examples. First off some cricket basics.

1. Unless a bowler can bowl yorkers ..he might find getting tailenders a pain at times.

2. Tailenders are sometimes not even good nuff to get a edge.

3. Srilanka doest have a bowler who bowls consistent yorkers (With the exception of one...oh dont think hard..you wont get it)

4. jayasuriya with his bowling style is perfectly suited for firing out tailenders.

You posted 5 examples.

your examples make my point. He does the job of a parttime over filler perfectly. gets a few wickets to boot.

I posted this a few posts ago...but guess you dont read anything that is logical..may be you prefer your ignorant posts.

here is what i posted as a reason why he doesnt bowl earlier.
THis time read the damn thing.

It also tells me that Srilanka had crap opening bowlers and a not yet mature muralitharan.(Until recently only vaas and murali were any good). So he bowled much earlier.

It tells me that with the presence of ZOYSA,FERNANDO,BUDDIKA and Improving VAAS and a all conquering MURALI...Jayasuriya doesnt have to bowl much or bring himself on early.

ANother way of looking at your twisted and illogical argument is.....Blaming a middle order batsman for not facing the opening bowlers...or...blaming an offspinner for not bowling leg breaks.

From the beginning i have been sayig that

1. jayasuriya is just a utility bowler of limited use.
2. he knows how to use himself to the maximum.
3. doesnt have any illusions abt his greatness. (May be he could learn from you..heh)
4. IMPROVED LANKAN BOWLING DOESNT REQUIRE HIM TO BOWL ALL THE TIME OR COME ON DURING THE FIRST 15 OVERS.

5. MOST IMPORTANTLY HE IS A batsman who can bowl. (EXACT QUOTE)

Your argument is...

1. I said he is a argument. (Trouble reading english here)
2. He comes on only during slog overs and gets only tailenders. (Despite the fact that tehy constitute only 35% of the total wickets)
3. He is overrated. ( Based on what? Compared him to gilchrist and he doesnt do a lot bad IMO)
4. Silence on all arguments.
5. Constant complaining that i ignore your facts. (Coz you read them wrong)

Oh and when i make a mistake i APOLOGIZE. Unlike you i dont keep going all day even when wrong.