tuffey vs harmison

[PY]

For the record, I will be quite happy if Harmison ends up with similar career figures as Andy Caddick or Darren Gough as they were world-class bowlers but they weren't greats of the game.

Obviously I would like him to go to the very top but I'm not unrealistic, I know that's unlikely to happen.

 

[Adamc]

thats a total of 18 out of 72 exactly 25% is that enough then he is the Greatest bowler

and u could may count out Love x 2, ganguly the one who dont play pace??

Eddie made a point of not including any West Indians, New Zealanders or Bangladeshis. If you include the likes of Lara x3 and Gayle x4 (make sure TEC doesn't see this thread) as well as other West Indians and New Zealanders, then that 25% goes up dramatically.
Re: Ganguly, are you suggesting his wicket is worthless to pace bowlers?

 

[twctopcat]

Meh, he'll be better than snow and willis put together, mark my words...

 

[luckyeddie]

The South Africans had little trouble against him, his series average was over 70 before the innings you mention. Going for over 200 runs against New Zealand while taking 8 wickets is by no means destroying them, its simply an acceptable performance. Anyone with pace can get wickets against the West Indies on bouncy tracks or against Bangladesh.

You're arguing against yourself, because all I've said is that Harmison is the best bowler in the English side at the moment. If in the process I can make you look a little foolish by pointing out that the 8 against New Zealand was better than anyone else did in the match, it was on a flat track and New Zealand are by all accounts the third best side in the world, so be it, but it would be a hollow victory on my part.

It's like shooting fish in a barrel.

 

[luckyeddie]

thats a total of 18 out of 72 exactly 25% is that enough then he is the Greatest bowler

and u could may count out Love x 2, ganguly the one who dont play pace??

You're just a being deliberately silly, aren't you?

You have just mentioned the word 'great', not me - I said that he was the best bowler at the moment in the English team - or do you prefer Hoggard, Flintoff or Jones? No?

So you're a Giles man, eh?

 

[luckyeddie]

Meh, he'll be better than snow and willis put together, mark my words...

I know you meant that as a joke, but you just might have kept this flame war going for a few more hours.

Do you think that koch_cha and a massive zebra will fit in the same barrel?

 

[biased indian]

Stephen J Harmison - Statistical Summary

Versus ------O M R W 5w 10w Best Avg S/R E/R
Australia ----132.3 28 455 9 0 0 3/70 50.56 88.33 3.43
India -------49 12 120 5 0 0 3/57 24.00 58.80 2.45
New Zealand-60 15 202 8 0 0 4/76 25.25 45.00 3.37
South Africa--129.2 26 413 9 0 0 4/33 45.89 86.22 3.19

Bangladesh -46.5 17 79 9 1 0 5/35 8.78 31.22 1.69
West Indies -139.5 41 342 23 2 0 7/12 14.87 36.48 2.45
Zimbabwe ---58.5 16 148 9 0 0 4/55 16.44 39.22 2.52

Overall (17) ---616.2 155 1759 72 3 0 7/12 24.43 51.36 2.85

 

[biased indian]

You're just a being deliberately silly, aren't you?

You have just mentioned the word 'great', not me - I said that he was the best bowler at the moment in the English team - or do you prefer Hoggard, Flintoff or Jones? No?

So you're a Giles man, eh?

for me its giles left arm around the wicket bowler

 

[twctopcat]

I know you meant that as a joke, but you just might have kept this flame war going for a few more hours.

Do you think that koch_cha and a massive zebra will fit in the same barrel?

Joking, me? Never.

 

[twctopcat]

Stephen J Harmison - Statistical Summary

Overall (17)

That's the important part, early promise, good potential, england's best form bowler.

 

[biased indian]

That's the important part, early promise, good potential, england's best form bowler.

early promise there was no promise in the first 10 test

good potential->thats what the debate is all about

england's best form bowler-> true

 

[PY]

Hmm, interesting....are you arguing that Harmison has no potential?

That is even more bewildering....

 

[biased indian]

Hmm, interesting....are you arguing that Harmison has no potential?

That is even more bewildering....

the potential to be a GREAT bowler

u have to prove u r potential aganist

 

[PY]

I was under the impression was that we were agreed that he has the potential to be great but whether he will or not is what was being debated.

Maybe I have just mis-understood.

 

[twctopcat]

early promise there was no promise in the first 10 test

good potential->thats what the debate is all about

england's best form bowler-> true

It is the start of his career so we'll let him off the "no promise whatsoever in the first 10". Cricket isn't as black and white as brilliant and terrible. If it took him 10 tests to reach the level where he is supposedly no.2 in the world then i suppose that is a bit much to ask. And promise isn't always about results. Pathan hasn't blitzed his first few tests in terms or results (best 4/100?) but he has shown promise nonetheless.

 

[Neil Pickup]

early promise there was no promise in the first 10 test

good potential->thats what the debate is all about

england's best form bowler-> true

No potential in raw statistics, but there was if you actually watched him bowl.

Breakdown of Harmison's wickets by batting position:

Top Order (1-3) - 24 (33.3%)
Middle Order (4-7) - 27 (37.5%)
Tail (8-11) - 21 (29.2%)
Estimated Average Position of Wicket: 5.50

That compares as fairly similar to the following:

Darren Gough: 229 Test Wickets
Estimated Average Position of Wicket: 5.29

Glenn McGrath: 430 Test Wickets
EAPW: 5.16

Sean Pollock: 326 Test Wickets
EAPW: 5.44

Chaminda Vaas: 229 Test Wickets
EAPW: 5.21

 

[Neil Pickup]

It is the start of his career so we'll let him off the "no promise whatsoever in the first 10". Cricket isn't as black and white as brilliant and terrible. If it took him 10 tests to reach the level where he is supposedly no.2 in the world then i suppose that is a bit much to ask. And promise isn't always about results. Pathan hasn't blitzed his first few tests in terms or results (best 4/100?) but he has shown promise nonetheless.

I remind everyone of Glenn McGrath's early career..

Why can't people even accept that he has the potential to be up there?!

 

[luckyeddie]

the potential to be a GREAT bowler

u have to prove u r potential aganist

Stop moving the goalposts

Oh, it's you again - carry on.

Get in the barrel

*bang*

 

[Nate]

im an aussie (neutral force here) and i have a right to be against both kiwis and poms *cough cough*
i think tuffey is better than harmison... they`re about equal in the longer version of the game but tuffey is by far the better in one-dayers. as for batting... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

 

[twctopcat]

I remind everyone of Glenn McGrath's early career..

Why can't people even accept that he has the potential to be up there?!

Beats me, i'd say it was due to England being in the doldrums of test cricket against the important opposition for so long that people don't believe that this terrible cricketing nation may finally be getting a team and more specifically a bowler worth talking about.