the better bowler Malcolm Marshall or Dennis Lillee

[archie mac]

His original action, whilst being described as poetry in motion etc, put enormous strain on particular areas of his back. Brett Lee had a similar problem, and maybe Bond (although that's just a hazy recollection, I'm not at all certain about it). That's why Lillee is so widely used as a coach these days, because he had to plan his own recovery/rehabilitation and completely redesign his action. His new action was not as aesthetically pleasing but was a model of sustainability - that's a large part of what he coaches. His courage in coming back from an injury type that had previously been considered career ending and becoming an even better bowler is a big part of why he's such a champ.

Early in his career Lillee was all arms and legs in his run up to the crease ( I can't remember his action that well, I was only a nipper) but after his injury he had the perfect action including run up.

 

[Swervy]

It is and I, and amz, have acknowledged that we were mistaken in believing this to be the case.
Nonetheless, Lillee's lack of subcontinental cricket is, in part, his fault - though there is plenty of blame attached to the ACB's tour managers and, of course, whatever caused his spinal stress fractures.

I guess it is Lillees fault that Australia didnt tour the subcontinent for pretty much the first 9 years of the 1970's

Yeah,and it was totally his fault that he developed a spinal fracture, he should have just stuck to his office cleaning business instead of representing his country and going the extra mile for his team, pretty much in the same way it was my fault that I did my hamstring whilst stretching to avoid being run out a few years ago..I just cannot forgive myself!!!

 

[Swervy]

Early in his career Lillee was all arms and legs in his run up to the crease ( I can't remember his action that well, I was only a nipper) but after his injury he had the perfect action including run up.

thats true, after his recovery his almost action perfect, before hand it was a tad messy

 

[Richard]

His original action, whilst being described as poetry in motion etc, put enormous strain on particular areas of his back. Brett Lee had a similar problem, and maybe Bond (although that's just a hazy recollection, I'm not at all certain about it). That's why Lillee is so widely used as a coach these days, because he had to plan his own recovery/rehabilitation and completely redesign his action. His new action was not as aesthetically pleasing but was a model of sustainability - that's a large part of what he coaches. His courage in coming back from an injury type that had previously been considered career ending and becoming an even better bowler is a big part of why he's such a champ.

Certainly Bond is at fault for his injuries. His action is simply asking for trouble, and I presume it's only a matter of time before disaster strikes again.
There's absolutely no doubt that the courage taken adds to his value as a human-being - but, really, it doesn't make him a better bowler.

 

[Richard]

I guess it is Lillees fault that Australia didnt tour the subcontinent for pretty much the first 9 years of the 1970's

Yeah,and it was totally his fault that he developed a spinal fracture, he should have just stuck to his office cleaning business instead of representing his country and going the extra mile for his team, pretty much in the same way it was my fault that I did my hamstring whilst stretching to avoid being run out a few years ago..I just cannot forgive myself!!!

Err - didn't I just say most of that?

 

[Swervy]

Err - didn't I just say most of that?

hehehe....sarcasm radar on the blink richard?

 

[Richard]

Why would you be sarcastic in responding, saying exactly the same as what I'd just said, in invese-inverse(sarcasm)?
It simply makes no sense to me.

 

[Slifer]

I think the feeling that people have for Lillee can very much be equated to what some have for one Viv Richards. Both were/are considered at the very top in their respective disciplines based not on statistics but mostly on what they brought to the game. I still consider Marsahll a superior bowler to Lillee but i think i can finally see y some would rank Lillee so highly.

 

[Richard]

Richards was about attitude in a big way, yes... but he still averaged 53 for most of his career.
I'd place Headley, Weekes, Sobers, Walcott and Lara ahead of him as batsmen - but none had anything like his charisma.

 

[archie mac]

Richards was about attitude in a big way, yes... but he still averaged 53 for most of his career.
I'd place Headley, Weekes, Sobers, Walcott and Lara ahead of him as batsmen - but none had anything like his charisma.

Now there are some names that would be worth watching in a match. Opening batsman apart from Haynes and Greenidge have not been a strong point for Windies teams, I wonder why that is?

 

[luckyeddie]

Now there are some names that would be worth watching in a match. Opening batsman apart from Haynes and Greenidge have not been a strong point for Windies teams, I wonder why that is?

Four words:

"Hit de ball, man!"

 

[archie mac]

Four words:

"Hit de ball, man!"

Yes not to many Boycs or Lawrys in there history

 

[Richard]

Now there are some names that would be worth watching in a match. Opening batsman apart from Haynes and Greenidge have not been a strong point for Windies teams, I wonder why that is?

Apart, I'd say more accurately, from the Fredericks-Greenidge-Haynes triumvarate.
Allan Rae and Jeffrey Stollmeyer weren't too bad from memory?

 

[Slifer]

u can also add conrad hunte to that list as well

 

[Richard]

True.
A loner, I presume, unlike the Rae-Stollmeyer\Fredericks-Greenidge\Greenidge-Haynes partnerships.

 

[archie mac]

True.
A loner, I presume, unlike the Rae-Stollmeyer\Fredericks-Greenidge\Greenidge-Haynes partnerships.

Very good players all. I was thinking more from an all time WI 11. The averages for the openers are not what the top and middle order players boast.

 

[oz_fan]

Very good players all. I was thinking more from an all time WI 11. The averages for the openers are not what the top and middle order players boast.

All Time
Greenidge
Haynes
Richards
Lara
Sobers
Lloyd (c)
Dhujon
Marshall
Ambrose
Holding
Garner (or spinner based on conditions. e.g. Ramadhin, Valentine, etc)

Just shows how great the Windies teams were when you consider Roberts, Walsh, etc wouldn't make my team.

 

[Matt79]

All Time
Greenidge
Haynes
Richards
Lara
Sobers
Lloyd (c)
Dhujon
Marshall
Ambrose
Holding
Garner (or spinner based on conditions. e.g. Ramadhin, Valentine, etc)

Just shows how great the Windies teams were when you consider Roberts, Walsh, etc wouldn't make my team.

Put in Headley for Lloyd and switch he and sobers around and I agree.

 

[mavric41]

Having seen both Lillee and Marshall bowl in their prime I can tell you that statistics do not tell you everything. Both were magnificient bowlers, matchwinners. Lillee got his reputation from the number of times that he performed in the crunch situations, obtaining critical wickets to put his side back in the match. Marshall was a very canny bowler, relying less on the brute speed than his West Indian contempories.

Who was better? Lillee by a fraction - just because of his big time performances. But I would love to have both in my side, Imran Khan & Sobers as my all rounders and Warne as my spinner.

I love how people here take snapshots of career statisitcs to prove their point beyond doubt when there is so much more to the stories than simple numbers.

 

[Richard]

Very good players all. I was thinking more from an all time WI 11. The averages for the openers are not what the top and middle order players boast.

Well, most of the time they're not, but at the current time (2001-current-day) opening is the best place to be.