The Battle for Number 2 (no pun intended)

[silentstriker]

Sorry, I did mean the Test series, but I was mistaken.

 

[silentstriker]

I think the problem with our batting is consistency, as everyone has said. Trescothick rarely lets us down but the same cannot be said of any of the others, but there is no doubts of the talents we have avilable to us. On our day with everybody fit and firing we are a side to be feared. We are in with a great shout of drawing in India, then we can go on to beat Pakistan comfortably at home with a bit of luck, I believe if these are achieved we can set our targets higher than being #2. Not saying we will achieve it, but if we were to beat Australia this year, then you couldn't really argue with victories home and away.

Alas, I am getting acrried away - but I do believe our #2 claim is the strongest

I think, for now, England does have to forget about being #1 and just focus on the present. Win against Pakistan, and draw against Australia and you are a solid #2.

 

[Tom Halsey]

You said that England was #2 and then a couple of posts later appeared to deny it. That gave the impression that you just wanted to oppose what silentstriker said, regardless of whether it was right or not.

No, I have never denied that England are number 2.

 

[Tom Halsey]

You implied in one post that you clearly #2. Then 2-3 posts later you asked, where you said such a thing. I pointed out where you did. Refer post#s 26-30 of this thread.
Now, answer my question: do you suffer from amnesia or do you make up arguements as you go along?

You clearly don't understand the difference between 'clearly' and 'a long time' then.

Clearly = Number 2 by a long way. Very clear.

A long time = Number 2 for a long time, but not necessarily by a long way.

England were number 2 probably were clearly number 2 for a long time (and IMO still are) but I never said clearly.

I'd say it was clear because we won everywhere away (until the subcontinent, where we've lost 3 matches) and at home, the other 2 only ever win anything at home.

 

[Tom Halsey]

TBF, Subcontinent win should be very important if want to have any legit claim of no.1/2, if you cant do that then at least you should wait for sometime before declaring yourself as No. 2 and try beating australia in next ashes. I will accept England as legit no. 2 if they can either win or draw ashes 2007 and continue winning everywhere else except Subcontinet.

I wasn't expecting England to win in India, but at least they should have managed a draw esp on the pitches they have played so far. They lost the second test within 3 days and these pitches are nowhere near the turners India used to dish out to visiting teams throughout the 90s.

Then Pakistan and India should have to actually win something away too.

England have just as good a home record as both sides (if not slightly better) and have beaten the World champions at home. We also have a good away record barring Asia. But as Asia only makes up part of an away record, and not all of it, I'd say we're number 2.

Having failed in Asia is a gap in our record, and is undesired, but winning there is not critical to being number 2 when considering India and Pakistan's away record.

 

[Jono]

Fair enough, but you can understand why calls that England were easily 2nd best in the world look a little less convincing now?

I person can't seperate the 3 teams, but I do think they're all a little better than South Africa at the minute.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Fair enough, but you can understand why calls that England were easily 2nd best in the world look a little less convincing now?

Oh of course it's less convincing than it was, but as far as I can see we are still number 2.

 

[luckyeddie]

Well there's been no drawn test series but the guy must mean the recent ODI series which was drawn 2-2.

I ignored that because it has nothing to do with who would be number 2 in test cricket (were we talking about tests? I get confused easily)

 

[Tom Halsey]

Yes we were talking about Tests, Eddie.

 

[luckyeddie]

Yes we were talking about Tests, Eddie.

Thank you for that, young man.

You're a good boy, you are. Here, have a penny - go and buy yourself a quarter of dolly mixtures.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Fair enough, but you can understand why calls that England were easily 2nd best in the world look a little less convincing now?

I person can't seperate the 3 teams, but I do think they're all a little better than South Africa at the minute.

I'm not sure what Pakistan have done in tests to prove that they are better than South Africa, to be honest. Recently they've beaten England and India at home, and drawn with the West Indies and India away, and been whitewashed by Australia. It doesn't speak of a team close to the top, in my opinion.

There's a great deal of potential there of course, but they have to win some more games to prove it.

And in fact, I'd expect out of India and South Africa right now, the home team would win any test series. India wouldn't be likely to beat South Africa in South Africa, nor to lose at home.

The only one of the three teams that I could see beating South Africa both home and away is England, and I would expect the subcontinent sides to lose when touring England. Pakistan have a chance soon to prove that wrong, but until they do I think England are the clear number two, albeit by a relatively small margin. Then I'd have India, Pakistan and South Africa all fairly close behind them.

 

[DanielFullard]

First and Foremost I must add that I think Australia are head and shoulders above everyone else right now

Id say that Its very close between India and England for second but Id probably just give it to England based on the Ashes win and performance in India (which hasnt been too bad). Pakistan a distant 4th.

I am very much looking forward to the SA v NZ test in a few weeks time

 

[viktor]

No, I have never denied that England are number 2.

This is tiring......
look at post # 29; you were replying to silentstriker.
Anyway, I'm done with this thread, so I don't really care what you reply....

 

[Tom Halsey]

"And where did I say it was clear?"

So how is that denying that England are now number 2?

You are a professional at putting words into my mouth.

I also refer you to post 104.

 

[Tony Blade]

I'm not sure what Pakistan have done in tests to prove that they are better than South Africa, to be honest. Recently they've beaten England and India at home, and drawn with the West Indies and India away, and been whitewashed by Australia. It doesn't speak of a team close to the top, in my opinion.

SA lost to India away, Pakistan drew. Pakistan won against England at Home, SA lost. Both lost to Australia away. Pakistan won against India at home, SA havent played them for a while. SA won against WI away, Pakistan drew. Going by results, I think Pakistan's record is slightly better.

 

[viktor]

"And where did I say it was clear?"

So how is that denying that England are now number 2?

You are a professional at putting words into my mouth.

I also refer you to post 104.

wokay boss. whatever you say.

 

[honestbharani]

India, with its current fielding and batting, can't get anywhere near #2 for me... Serious work needs to be done in these two areas.

 

[tooextracool]

India, with its current fielding and batting, can't get anywhere near #2 for me... Serious work needs to be done in these two areas.

i agree with you on that one. if anything India have gone backwards, especially in the batting department which is clearly over reliant on Rahul Dravid, and the fact that they are struggling to beat a half fit England side at home only emphasises that. Their bowling has plenty of potential but still has to go a fair bit before it can be proven.

 

[Jono]

Well before this past few months, we could basically always bank on Sehwag and Dravid getting the runs, and Laxman, Ganguly or Sachin would pitch in every now and then, and that'd be enough.

However recently its been Dravid, and then the lower to middle order chipping in, a worrying sight indeed.

 

[silentstriker]

"And where did I say it was clear?"

So how is that denying that England are now number 2?

You are a professional at putting words into my mouth.

I also refer you to post 104.

Tom,

You were right. It is 2) England 3) Pakistan and 4) India. England outplayed India without five of their starters, and although most of the fill ins performed admirably, it was more India who just played like ****. They don't deserve to be anywhere near #2. I want to puke on every single member of that team right now.