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The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread (white ball edition)

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
May be because it's not clear if he is a bowling all-rounder
He definitely was a bowling all rounder. Well I guess he was a genuine all rounder because he'd have been picked on both disciplines but at the time he was a bowler who was ridiculously good with the bat. It is reflected in his batting positions.
 

Magrat Garlick

Global Moderator
AT subcontinent

Jayasuria
Tendulkar
Sangakkara
Kohli
DeSilva
Dhoni +
Dev
Imran
Wasim
Waqar
Muralidaran

ROW

Gilchrist +
Amla
Ponting
Richards
DeVilliers
Bevan
Stokes
Warne
Lee
Garner
McGrath

Wanted Symonds and Watson there but honestly ended not picking cos it started to look like AT Australia

Who'd win?
No one, 5-5 tie after 5 matches in each zone

Decider in England in June rained off
 

Gob

Cricketer Of The Year
Klusener for Stokes imo.

Otherwise Symonds for Stokes and Watson for Amla does sound pretty good too.

Starc gets in over Lee maybe?
That's what I originally went for but too many Australians is the only reason to not to.

Starc's poo form of late clouded my judgement. Bond is a shout
 

h_hurricane

International Vice-Captain
Klusener was definitely a genuine all-rounder. He average over 40 with the bat very harsh calling him a bowling all-rounder lol
At the same time, he averaged sub 30 with the ball as well. He could fit in the description of both batting and bowling all rounder. Probably the only cricketer to average 40+ with the bat and < 30 with the ball.
 

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Nobody who bats the majority of their career at 7,8 and 9 can be considered to be primarily a batsman.
 

mr_mister

Hall of Fame Member
Nobody who bats the majority of their career at 7,8 and 9 can be considered to be primarily a batsman.
Yeah it is strange he never became like a permanent 5 or 6. There was a time when he was arguably the best LO batsmen in the side and was still in the lower order
 

TheJediBrah

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At the same time, he averaged sub 30 with the ball as well. He could fit in the description of both batting and bowling all rounder. Probably the only cricketer to average 40+ with the bat and < 30 with the ball.
I would say he fits neither, in the context of how the terminology is usually applied. A batting all-rounder (eg. Symonds) is one who is picked as a batsman who can bowl a bit but not going to be a main bowler, and vice versa for bowling all-rounder
Yeah it is strange he never became like a permanent 5 or 6. There was a time when he was arguably the best LO batsmen in the side and was still in the lower order
He was ideally suited to that role. It would have been unwise to put him up in the first 15-20 overs or against a newish ball on 90s ODI wickets. If he came around again in 2021 with the way ODIs are set up these days though he could probably bat anywhere and be a beast, even open.

Saying this despite SA having some ordinary guys batting in the top 5 back then too. The likes of Klusener/Pollock/Boucher were more worrying to the opposition that a Dippenaar/McKenzie/Rhodes type set up. I always felt they were a great top-order batsman or 2 short during the 90s-early 00s.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
He was ideally suited to that role. It would have been unwise to put him up in the first 15-20 overs or against a newish ball on 90s ODI wickets. If he came around again in 2021 with the way ODIs are set up these days though he could probably bat anywhere and be a beast, even open.
Yeah he opened or batted 3 quite a bit in the late 90s as a pinch hitter.

And its hard to rate his career as one thing coz he started off as very much a bowling allrounder who could bowl genuine heat, reverse swing and yorkers but then slowly wound up as a fast medium and then went down to even just medium fast with cutters who bowls the middle overs in ODIs. He was always useful but I think his days as a medium pacer wont see him averaging below 30 with the ball or anything. And that was the time he started to bat 7 because his role as the finisher was always his best suiting one, inspite of his successes as a pinch hitter, off and on.
 

CricAddict

International Captain
I would say he fits neither, in the context of how the terminology is usually applied. A batting all-rounder (eg. Symonds) is one who is picked as a batsman who can bowl a bit but not going to be a main bowler, and vice versa for bowling all-rounder

He was ideally suited to that role. It would have been unwise to put him up in the first 15-20 overs or against a newish ball on 90s ODI wickets. If he came around again in 2021 with the way ODIs are set up these days though he could probably bat anywhere and be a beast, even open.

Saying this despite SA having some ordinary guys batting in the top 5 back then too. The likes of Klusener/Pollock/Boucher were more worrying to the opposition that a Dippenaar/McKenzie/Rhodes type set up. I always felt they were a great top-order batsman or 2 short during the 90s-early 00s.
90s team was very good with Kirsten, Hudson, Kallis, Cullinan, Cronje, Rhodes and Boucher/Richardson being the top seven followed by allrounders like Mcmillan, Klusenar, Pollock, Symcox, Boje etc with just Donald being the rabbit at 11. Once these guys retired, they couldn't really replace anyone for sometime.

Dippenaar/Mckenzie from my memory lost them a lot of matches.
 

TheJediBrah

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Kirsten, Hudson, Kallis, Cullinan, Cronje, Rhodes
Nah that's not particularly strong top order at all, especially compared to the rest of their side, or the other stronger sides of the time. Even Kallis was a bit iffy in ODIs.

You missed then guy who was probably the best of the lot, Gibbs
 

CricAddict

International Captain
Tendulkar
Rohit
Kohli
Miandad
De Silva
Dhoni
Imran
Kapil
Wasim
Waqar
Muralitharan

Pretty much perfect.
Just as a personal preference, I will have Jayasuriya there for Rohit. Adds a bowling option, a left handed option and also can go strike big-time from the outset while the others can bat for longer periods. The top 6 right now look samey.
 

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