Test XI for The Last Quarter Century

[Mr Miyagi]

Yeah but they wouldn't last long. :/ Then Flintoff and Cairns and the all-rounders with weaker batting will get wrecked by Gilly in the 2nd innings...

I dropped Cairns for Flintoff.

I have

Kluesner 7
Flintoff 8
Pollock 9
Akram 10

Deeeeeeep batting :P

#Ain'tovertillitsover :P

Should I drop Murali at 11 for Shakib (or Jayasuriya):P

Just how much damage in 60 balls is McGrath going to do to a team that has a top score of 86 at number 10 :P

Is McGrath the angel of light :P

 

[trundler]

I'm afraid they're all fodder for McGrath. :P

Anyway, would be fun to see McGrath vs AB. Guy had no obvious weakness in his technique but still somehow got out and if you want someone to spot a batsman's weakness and target it, it would be McGrath or Hadlee. Tendulkar was suspect to in-swingers (Kohli is too), Lara edged plenty to the ball going across when facing McGrath and so on and so forth. Now, AB has an unlimited arsenal of shots, too.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

I'm afraid they're all fodder for McGrath. :P

Anyway, would be fun to see McGrath vs AB. Guy had no obvious weakness in his technique but still somehow got out and if you want someone to spot a batsman's weakness and target it, it would be McGrath or Hadlee. Tendulkar was suspect to in-swingers (Kohli is too), Lara edged plenty to the ball going across when facing McGrath and so on and so forth. Now, AB has an unlimited arsenal of shots, too.

When ABdV is in full flight, he only gets himself out. As a Hadlee and McGrath fan, that is my opinion.

I have watched a lot of Viv Richards too (do not tell me he didn't slog, his whole game play was inside out over off and stepping out of off and swatting to the leg side with a flick or cross bat. He just made it look good). Hadlee had natural swing with seam and channel bowling. McGrath had seam and channel bowling. ABdV is his own enemy when he gets greedy. And he is voracious.

But Kohli, at some point outside India, we have to accept he is in the divine trinity.

I think I am nearly already there for odi, even at Tendulkar's expense. The guy plays well. Consistency. Game in and game out. Kohli just delivers. Even without Mr 360 or Viv's slogging made look textbook.

 

[TheJediBrah]

What? Lee over Akram? Lee might not even make a 2nd ATXI.

dunno man, I'm still going with Akram but saying Lee's just as good isn't as crazy as it sounds. His stats are just as good and he played in a much higher-scoring era. As someone who watched Lee a lot growing up I can tell you that no one was more dangerous with the new white ball.

 

[trundler]

It would be a battle of the gods though. Maybe, just maybe McGrath could get him to mistime a scoop and get him caught?

 

[Mr Miyagi]

It would be a battle of the gods though. Maybe, just maybe McGrath could get him to mistime a scoop and get him caught?

McGrath in IPL warmed the bleachers. You're telling me he could adapt when his coaches thought not. ABdV we know has. Viv was already a generation ahead of when he played. And Kohli still currently refuses too but in ODI is an awesome force by not.

I'm not convinced. I don't know. But I am not convinced.

If I had my way, I'd turn every failed at getting a professional contract rugby lock forward in NZ into McGrath prototypes.

I rate the guy so very highly. But his skill - it aint Wasim.

I wish he was NZ's bowling coach. For sure. I wish he was a FC bowling coach in NZ. Can he trouble ABdV, Kohli and Viv - I am not convinced.

 

[Bolo]

Agreed. But they're damn impressive now.

He was close, but Akram at 10 bats better.


I have Amla. And Buttler has outperformed Dhoni in the comparative era they have overlapped no?


Watson is in the 40's when batting 7 and 48.5 career high when batting 5, I have him at 5.


No thanks. I thought about him. I went against him for Watto, Kluesner, Flintoff and Pollock.

Fielding is a point. But my team isn't full of passengers in the field. And I really like the 6 front line bowling options.

I went with Kohli at 3. He's got him. And ABdV at 4. There was no room for Punter. I looked, and tried, but I wanted 6 bowlers.



Flintoff has 3 odi centuries, McGrath none.

Too soon on Buttler. Might be comparing the peak of his career to the worst of Dhoni's. No way to know. See where he stands in a few years.

Meaningless sample size to extrapolate from for Watson at 5. 7 also small. Failed badly at 6 and 8. Under a hundred career runs. He's a much better bat when he has a chance to build an innings. Promote him or drop him. Equally good options in my book, but he has no business in the middle.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Too soon on Buttler. Might be comparing the peak of his career to the worst of Dhoni's. No way to know. See where he stands in a few years.

Oh for sure. I was caught out on Anderson's injuries in NZ ATG a couple of years ago. Either way right now, I am happy to include him, if he turns to custard in the future, I will change my opinion.

Meaningless sample size to extrapolate from for Watson at 7. Under a hundred career runs. He's a much better bat when he has a chance to build an innings. Promote him or drop him. Equally good options in my book, but he has no business in the middle.

I have him at 5. Small sample but best position. Not even even why I chose him there. I chose Tendulkar and Amla to open, Add 5, 6 and 7 together. That's over 1000 runs. I aint promoting him. I aint dropping him. I like him where he is. And I like his bowling as a 6th option.

I really rate Shane Watson. I have seen him play some amazing innings, as opener or in the middle order and with the ball. I get the lbw and review thing in tests, but he seriously has been a massive limited overs great for a long time under the radar of many people. I still have nightmares of him almost single handedly winning an ICC trophy in 2009. There's the Watto pull, there's the Watto drop kick over mid wicket, there's the Watto down straight, just get out lbw already Watto. Here he is with the ball, outswinger knick to Haddin. Leg cutter, LBW. Just stop playing international cricket Watto.

 

[Bolo]

Less reliability is needed with high SR and batting deep. :P

Modern Aus (remember Faulkner at 9), SA (don't tell me Phelwayo is a bowler - seriously), Eng (Woakes at 8, Willey at 9 when one of Ali Khan or Plunkett don't play) and maybe even Indian teams have proven this.

NZ used to use the same formula. It has become fairly common.

More reliability is needed with higher strikerates. The higher your strike rate, the less balls you face. Unless you are AB.

You need a balance between the strike rate and reliability. Having allrounders helps balance it, but this team goes too far in favour of sr IMO.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

More reliability is needed with higher strikerates. The higher your strike rate, the less balls you face. Unless you are AB.

You need a balance between the strike rate and reliability. Having allrounders helps balance it, but this team goes too far in favour of sr IMO.

No. I disagree.

Lower average with higher strike rate but batting deep, that is the 2015 (if not earlier) philosophy of super high scoring.

Aus in 2015 embraced it. They won a world cup. Where did Haddin and Faulkner bat again?

SA did then and now. (They have quotas too, but Phelekwayo still plays around 8 - where's Morris - and they have many more who have played since. Seriously.)

England is still the embodiment of it when Stokes and Woakes at 8 are fit. They take it further with Willey at 9 and Rashid at 10.

NZ with Santner at 8 in 2018 weren't the worst. Vettorri before him.

India has Jadeja at times.

I disagree.

My all rounders do not help my batting.

They help my bowling. In an ATG side I want 6 legitimate frontline bowling options where only 3 are unquestionable. I bat deep to Pollock at 9 and Akram and 10.

Refer NZ ans Aus who made the final in 2015 as against SA :P

6 bowling options makes things easier for a captain and the field. Not the batting.

 

[smash84]

dunno man, I'm still going with Akram but saying Lee's just as good isn't as crazy as it sounds. His stats are just as good and he played in a much higher-scoring era. As someone who watched Lee a lot growing up I can tell you that no one was more dangerous with the new white ball.

I have watched a fair bit of both actually and while Lee's stats are very good but Wasim was consistently dangerous with the new or old ball. Didn't matter. If he didn't get many breakthroughs then Wasim would usually take himself out of the attack after the 9th over and save his other overs for the death. He would always back himself to succeed in the death and succeeded most of the times. All throughout his career it was the death overs where the batsmen really scored quickly (of course post 96 it was also the first 15).

With Lee he was deadbolt straight most of the times (from my recollection) and while his accuracy was pretty good for his pace he was no McGrath or Pollock or Akram

 

[trundler]

That significantly weakens the bowling. That basically means your batting can score 350 but your bowling can leak that much too. Just because it's recent trend doesn't mean an all time team needs it

 

[Mr Miyagi]

That significantly weakens the bowling. That basically means your batting can score 350 but your bowling can leak that much too. Just because it's recent trend doesn't mean an all time team needs it

Dude, if I leak 349, with Watto, Kluesner, Pollock, Akram, Murali and Flintoff is very unlikely, my team wins. It is limited overs. Runs matter.

But I bat deep. So chasing over 300 aint over till the 9th wicket falls with Akram at 10.

 

[Bolo]

Two batsmen. Same average. Different strikerates. The one who strikes quicker faces fewer balls. This leaves the rest of his team more balls to face. They need to be more reliable to maximise innings score by facing every ball

Nobody is arguing that sr isn't important. It's at least as big a consideration as average. But you want both. AB wasn't the best bat cos he had the best SR or average, but because he provided the best balance of the two. Guys like Maxwell don't give this balance

 

[trundler]

Nah, you're seriously overrating an all-rounders batting. It's not EA Cricket where all the attributes add up lol.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Two batsmen. Same average. Different strikerates. The one who strikes quicker faces fewer balls. This leaves the rest of his team more balls to face.

Agreed.

They need to be more reliable to maximise innings score by facing every ball

Totally disagree. They need more SR than those before them to maximise unless bowled out.

Nobody is arguing that sr isn't important. It's at least as big a consideration as average. But you want both. AB wasn't the best bat cos he had the best SR or average, but because he provided the best balance of the two. Guys like Maxwell don't give this balance

I don't have Maxwell.


I have Tendulkar, Amla and Kohli chewing up the top order.

I have AbDV, Watto and Buttler smashing the middle order.

I have Flintoff, Kluesner, Pollock to finish.

I have Akram as insurance.

I have Murali to bowl only.

Tell me Butler is still an uncertainty. I agree. But he has played 109 ODI games now. And I like his numbers over Gilly, Dhoni or de Kock.

The rest - I like. I bat to 10, to 9 with a century, and I have 6 front line bowlers. I like it as a team. I really do. I just want a better bowler than Tendulkar as the second spinner (and 7th option). But I am not ready to drop anyone for the alternatives just yet.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Nah, you're seriously overrating an all-rounders batting. It's not EA Cricket where all the attributes add up lol.

Nah, its exactly like that. Imo.

Either the averages per game add up or they don't.

And the averages are based on what has happened before. And I don't value not outs or Dhoni (or Bevan) would make the team :P

I look at runs per game for balls faced. Not "averages" as you know them with not outs. Real runs.

Like Colin de Grandhomme has amazing ODI batting stats with not outs, but has only won one game with the bat and lost plenty. Real runs. As a batsman - I don't rate him yet. Maybe never will. I don't care for his not out inflated average. :P

 

[trundler]

Who are the high-fliers and the bankers of ODI cricket? - ESPNcricinfo

This needs radical era adjustment but would still be helpful

 

[trundler]

Amla and Tendulkar opening seems good. Gilly in the middle order, or at 3.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Amla and Tendulkar opening seems good. Gilly in the middle order, or at 3.

Dude, in mid 2018, Kohli is locking that #3 spot for me from 1993 post Viv.

And Gilly, well for me personally, is behind Butler, prolly de Kock and fighting with Dhoni at best.

Gilly was great in 2007 with his squash balls and rep.

But now, he's like, 35.84 at 97.

de Kock is like 45.41 at 93.98

Dhonis is 51.37 at 88.40

And Butler is like 38.05 at 118.

Gilly is no certainty these days.

He's like Bell Bottom pants, huge in his era, and every guy wanted a piece of them, but now, not so much.

Cricket has moved on.

I like new direction, with or without squash balls.