State & Future of New Zealand Cricket

[Fiery]

I'd go so far as to say next to nothing. I've rarely seen someone play so awfully and end-up with an innings that made such a difference to a game.

I'd say they won in spite, not because, of him.

God, I've never heard so much bull**** in my life...and I think you know it. Obviously he's not in vintage McCullum knick at the moment but he played that innings with a lot of brains and kept the strike ticking over for Oram well. Sometimes I wonder what planet you are on Richard

 

[Richard]

So by mistiming every other stroke and often happening to place the ball into gaps he's showing brains and keeping the strike ticking over... man, I wish I had such (lack of) skills...

 

[Fiery]

So by mistiming every other stroke and often happening to place the ball into gaps he's showing brains and keeping the strike ticking over... man, I wish I had such (lack of) skills...

The fact that he stayed in while all before him had failed to and contributed to a 120 run partnership was good enough for me. He'll be so much better for the time in the middle too and can see him coming into some real form in the next few games. By the time the World Cup comes around he'll be back scoring 25 ball 50s again

 

[Richard]

If he is, all well and good for him, but on this occasion the fact that he stayed in did not have anything particularly to do with good play on his part, merely that things ran his way. He played darn terribly, but ended-up with an innings against his name that was the 2nd-most-crucial of the game.

 

[Fiery]

the fact that he stayed in did not have anything particularly to do with good play on his part, merely that things ran his way.

He wasn't dropped once. They weren't the most comfortable runs he's ever made by any stretch but he and Oram's stand was invaluable in turning round the innings...I don't know what part of that you can't seem to understand

 

[Natman20]

Oram is a very capable batsman and a good bowler once ranked in the top 10 in the world before he got injured. He lost pace but is still nagging and way better than the other bowlers we have that could replace him. I completely disagree with everything you have said Richard. Oram is a great batsman agreed he has had some dismal performances but thats beause of the situations he has come in. I see him being a solid middle order all-rounder in the future. As you can tell with NZ cricket statistics dont really matter because no individual player stands out really apart from bond. Oram has shown he can play confidently and score well. Thats all the coach needs to know that he will perform consistently. Who else is there that fits his position in the team? Marshall, he'll get less than 10 gauranteed and Adams? he hardly an all-rounder. Oram provides batting strength in the middle order and also a great bowling option through the middle overs.

I have the same negative attitude about Franklin as you do Oram but it doesnt necessarily make them bad players.

 

[Richard]

He wasn't dropped once. They weren't the most comfortable runs he's ever made by any stretch but he and Oram's stand was invaluable in turning round the innings...I don't know what part of that you can't seem to understand

I know he wasn't dropped once, but do you really think you have to be dropped 4 times to play poorly and get an innings that makes you look like you've played better than you have?

I'm perfectly well aware that his and Oram's stand was the single most crucial aspect of the game, if you notice I've said as much, but McCullum did NOT play well, AT ALL. He played very poorly and to say he played well is IMO laughable.

 

[Richard]

Oram is a very capable batsman and a good bowler once ranked in the top 10 in the world before he got injured. He lost pace but is still nagging and way better than the other bowlers we have that could replace him. I completely disagree with everything you have said Richard. Oram is a great batsman agreed he has had some dismal performances but thats beause of the situations he has come in. I see him being a solid middle order all-rounder in the future. As you can tell with NZ cricket statistics dont really matter because no individual player stands out really apart from bond. Oram has shown he can play confidently and score well. Thats all the coach needs to know that he will perform consistently. Who else is there that fits his position in the team? Marshall, he'll get less than 10 gauranteed and Adams? he hardly an all-rounder. Oram provides batting strength in the middle order and also a great bowling option through the middle overs.

I have the same negative attitude about Franklin as you do Oram but it doesnt necessarily make them bad players.

Dunno which posts of mine you've been reading but I've been backing Oram - with bat and ball - throughout this thread. I've been saying he's good enough to bat at #6 despite failing a considerable number of times before yesterday. I've said many times that he's an excellent ODI bowler. Not in the Bond league, no, but his stats are pretty reasonable nonetheless.

I do think Franklin is utterly rubbish in ODIs and it's no coincidence that his 2 best performances have come against absolutely wretched England batting-line-ups.

Most of my arguments in this thread (aside from arguing Oram's case on the positive side) have concerned McCullum. Who I don't think much of in ODIs and think that to laud praise on for yesterday's knock is quite ridiculous, when he played damn terribly. Maybe it might get him into some nick - if so, good for him. But he didn't play well - at all.

 

[Dick Rockett]

I'd go so far as to say next to nothing. I've rarely seen someone play so awfully and end-up with an innings that made such a difference to a game.

I'd say they won in spite, not because, of him.

What complete crap. What I saw was a batsman struggling with timing and placement, but that does not translate as "abominable", especially considering the two-paced wicket and the fact that every other batsman in the match failed with the obvious exceptions of Oram and Joyce.

McCullum may have looked ugly doing it, but he never looked like getting out until he tried playing the big shots, which was crucial as Oram needed a partner to stay with him.

That innings was not vintage McCullum, nor was it pretty, but he did a great job IMO - exactly the job required in the circumstances. To say that NZ won in spite of him is extraordinary. We couldn't have done it without him.

 

[Richard]

You must've been watching a different game, then, because what I saw was McCullum rarely looking at ease and always looking likely to get out any moment.

 

[Fiery]

I'm perfectly well aware that his and Oram's stand was the single most crucial aspect of the game, if you notice I've said as much, but McCullum did NOT play well, AT ALL. He played very poorly and to say he played well is IMO laughable.

That comment is so contradictory it's "IMO laughable"

 

[Richard]

No, it's not.

Saying a stand is\is not crucial bears no resemblence to saying an innings is\is not skillfully played.

 

[Dick Rockett]

You must've been watching a different game, then, because what I saw was McCullum rarely looking at ease and always looking likely to get out any moment.

I didn't say he looked at ease. He did however, rarely play and miss or offer edges, and didn't sky any catches. He had a problem with placement and timing on a two-paced wicket like virtually every other batsman, as I said.

Your problem is that you think anything other than complete perfection is dire. One wonders why you bother watching the game.

 

[Richard]

Bull**** do I. Oram's innings certainly didn't remotely approach perfection but you might notice I've placed a deal of praise on that.

So what if not many other batters did much on it? It wasn't that bad a pitch. There was some good bowling, and it was a bit slow. It wasn't overtly two-paced at all. McCullum faced a pretty ordinary bowling-attack and failed to do much other than make himself look incapable of scoring for the most part. Give him a medal for not skying any shots, why don't you?

 

[Dick Rockett]

Bull**** do I.

Are you incapable of starting a rebuttal without using that word? Buy a thesaurus.

It wasn't overtly two-paced at all.

That would explain the balls roaring past the face, then not getting above knee height. You ought to get some sleep instead of getting up early to watch such "abominable" cricket, your eyesight might improve.

Give him a medal for not skying any shots, why don't you?

Have him hanged, drawn and quartered for not being at the top of his game why don't you?

 

[Richard]

Are you incapable of starting a rebuttal without using that word? Buy a thesaurus.

If something is the most appropriate you use it more regularly than others.

Any fool can use a thesaurus without buying one.

That would explain the balls roaring past the face, then not getting above knee height. You ought to get some sleep instead of getting up early to watch such "abominable" cricket, your eyesight might improve.

So might your powers of perception

Have him hanged, drawn and quartered for not being at the top of his game why don't you?

Funny how regularly he's "not at the top of his game", isn't it?

 

[Fiery]

Bull**** do I. Oram's innings certainly didn't remotely approach perfection but you might notice I've placed a deal of praise on that.

So what if not many other batters did much on it? It wasn't that bad a pitch. There was some good bowling, and it was a bit slow. It wasn't overtly two-paced at all. McCullum faced a pretty ordinary bowling-attack and failed to do much other than make himself look incapable of scoring for the most part. Give him a medal for not skying any shots, why don't you?

Who was able to bat easily on that pitch apart from Oram?
New Zealand Herald:

"Together the pair breathed life back into the New Zealand innings and ensured that England would at least be faced with a competitive total on a pitch that was sluggish in pace and horribly inconsistent in bounce."

 

[Prince EWS]

So we wait to see whether this innings proves to be the start of the next part of his career as a ODI number-six batsman...

Exactly. By itself it proves nothing. If he can back it up with consistent performances there, I'll obviously be proven wrong. But I don't think he will do so.

 

[Richard]

Rrrrrrright.

I must have dropped-off when the shooters and lifters were being bowled and awoken again when the normality was resumed.

 

[Dick Rockett]

If something is the most appropriate you use it more regularly than others.

Or perhaps if you lack creativity or an extensive vocabulary.

Funny how regularly he's "not at the top of his game", isn't it?

What's that got to do with any analysis of last night's innings? I certainly haven't been referring to the rest of his career in this thread.