South African Domestic Season 2012/13

[MrPrez]

Of course, the bias towards the WPer would always be there

But great to see us with two top keeping prospects!

 

[SeamUp]

Never we are THE best ! Cobras champions, WP Currie Cup champions and the Stormers will do the biz !

Certainly is. Players like Kuhn, Smit, Van Wyk and possibly Vilas can feel hard done by but the next keeper when AB decides to give it up has to be a youngster with experience as we can't let our side become too old.


T20 stuff coming up. Interesting if we will see some new faces because contracts will be up for grabs for next season. And there is a huge batch of schoolboy talent coming through the system over the last 2 years.

Bopara the only foreign signing. Warriors and Knights don't have the money for them so will have to keep an eye out on the other 4 teams but wouldn't be surprised of their wasn't anymore. Maybe Hogg, maybe Nannes etc

Warriors bowling attack will be interesting. Hopefully Nqweni has his action sorted and I see Anrich Nortje from Brandwag got a little debut for EP this past week. The young bowlers keep coming through but the Warriors need a young batting star asap. JJ Smuts, Ackermann, K. Smuts etc haven't stepped up so they;ve gone to lots of the old-timers for Sunfoil Series. That is why I say contracts are up for grabs. Interesting times ahead.

 

[Goughy]

Random search showed that 4 boys I coached in the same school team all played for Northerns U19s just before Christmas. I'm sure there are many coaches who have had as much, if not more, influence than me but I am proud of them all.

 

[MrPrez]

Never we are THE best ! Cobras champions, WP Currie Cup champions and the Stormers will do the biz !

Certainly is. Players like Kuhn, Smit, Van Wyk and possibly Vilas can feel hard done by but the next keeper when AB decides to give it up has to be a youngster with experience as we can't let our side become too old.


T20 stuff coming up. Interesting if we will see some new faces because contracts will be up for grabs for next season. And there is a huge batch of schoolboy talent coming through the system over the last 2 years.

Bopara the only foreign signing. Warriors and Knights don't have the money for them so will have to keep an eye out on the other 4 teams but wouldn't be surprised of their wasn't anymore. Maybe Hogg, maybe Nannes etc

Warriors bowling attack will be interesting. Hopefully Nqweni has his action sorted and I see Anrich Nortje from Brandwag got a little debut for EP this past week. The young bowlers keep coming through but the Warriors need a young batting star asap. JJ Smuts, Ackermann, K. Smuts etc haven't stepped up so they;ve gone to lots of the old-timers for Sunfoil Series. That is why I say contracts are up for grabs. Interesting times ahead.

Woo, this means I get to work again!

 

[SeamUp]

Woo, this means I get to work again!

T20 Series starts on Friday.

A test match starts the day before.

Oh yes !

 

[SeamUp]

Random search showed that 4 boys I coached in the same school team all played for Northerns U19s just before Christmas. I'm sure there are many coaches who have had as much, if not more, influence than me but I am proud of them all.

Well done mate. I'm sure they all value your input in their careers.

Presumably caoched at Prep school level and they went to different high schools ?

 

[LegendaryProtea]

I don't live in RSA so I don't get to see the first-class matches and assess which talent is ready for the step up. As such, I have a few questions for you SeamUp.

Is Dean Elgar really a better bat than van Zyl or Rossouw in the longer format? All three have similar averages (mid 40s) and are of similar age. How would you rank these three and if you were the selector, who would you bat at 7 when JP is unavailable?

Also, how far away from the Test number 7 spot is de Kock? Following the scores on cricinfo, he gets a start in almost every innings and then gives it away. Do you think he needs another full season of FC cricket in order to learn how to develop a big innings regularly?

Finally, how far away would you say the likes of Kyle Abbott, Chris Morris and Gqamane are from pushing Morkel for his place in the Test side? If not pushing Morkel for a spot in the side then at least challenging Kleinveldt for the position of 4th seamer?

 

[Goughy]

Well done mate. I'm sure they all value your input in their careers.

Presumably caoched at Prep school level and they went to different high schools ?

Cheers. Exactly. Had them for the Prep school first XI. The year group had less than 50 boys so it is a lot of good cricket from not many participants.

 

[SeamUp]

Owais Shah to play for the Cobras again.

Azhar Mahmood supposedly to play for the Cobras as well.

Will be madness if the Lions don't sign Dirk Nannes again.

 

[SeamUp]

I don't live in RSA so I don't get to see the first-class matches and assess which talent is ready for the step up. As such, I have a few questions for you SeamUp.

Is Dean Elgar really a better bat than van Zyl or Rossouw in the longer format? All three have similar averages (mid 40s) and are of similar age. How would you rank these three and if you were the selector, who would you bat at 7 when JP is unavailable?

Also, how far away from the Test number 7 spot is de Kock? Following the scores on cricinfo, he gets a start in almost every innings and then gives it away. Do you think he needs another full season of FC cricket in order to learn how to develop a big innings regularly?

Finally, how far away would you say the likes of Kyle Abbott, Chris Morris and Gqamane are from pushing Morkel for his place in the Test side? If not pushing Morkel for a spot in the side then at least challenging Kleinveldt for the position of 4th seamer?

No problem mate.

First of all Dean Elgar is in a different category to the other two for me. He is an opener and a good leader. He is held in high regard by opposing teams, selectors and coaches in the country for his ability to bat long periods of time when he opens and get big hundreds. I think with SA knowing they have Duminy to come back they have the middle order depth for now. So they are giving Dean international experience as he is the next cab off the ranks for opening. Don't forget he has pushed the selectors hard also with his SA 'A' performances.

Stiaan Van Zyl is probably ahead of Rilee Rossouw at the moment. Probably due to the better management of an innings. Van Zyl is elegant but needs to turn over strike more while Rossouw is more of a 'I want to dominate you' type but it is his downfall with the selectors because they want him to play game situations more.

All have ability and have scored runs for SA 'A' so for now I would stay with Elgar for the planning reasons I mentioned above. I think the selectors have got it right.

I think with de Villiers taking the gloves and admitting he wants to keep them for now I can only see De Kock having another 4-day season with possibly some SA 'A' 4-day games in mind. I don't think he should be opening though in the longer version. Really tough on the young lad but still pulled off a decent first full 4-day season.

I think its tough for the selectors. They're backing Kleinveldt for now and hasn't done badly. Actually showed some real skill but when you don't get enough opportunities how soon do you go to the younger bowler thinking about the future.

For now Abbott and Morris seem the closest with de Lange coming back to full fitness. But its also what they bring to the table. Someone like Morris could be a replacement for Morkel tomorrow and do his role in test cricket. Really has come on leaps and bounds and was tight in the SuperSport series which is what he needed to work on as well as taking wickets.

Abbott really has grown as a player and this season Klusener has worked on his aggression in the way he targets the stumps and his bouncer. He really does hone in on the wickets and doesn't give the batsman a moments peace and he moves the ball around and is capable of getting reverse. best bowler v NZL in T20 and v Pakistan in the whites. So possibly could be a back-up to Philander.

I want to see another season or two from Gqamane. He is short and skiddy but has one heck of a heart from what I've seen. He bounds in with energy and also targets the stumps well. So for now I want to see more from him before we can say SA selection is close.

Hardus Viljoen is worth a mention, all muscle at the crease. Similar to de Lange. He can be expensive but is a wicket-taker.

 

[Marius]

Hardus Viljoen is worth a mention, all muscle at the crease. Similar to de Lange. He can be expensive but is a wicket-taker.

Goof analysis there I think.

Just wanted to say with regard to Viljoen I don't know if we can bank on him having a long career in the professional game. All his pace comes from his action and he has already had problems with injuries. He is not like Steyn, Donald, or Holding, with those lovely smooth actions.

I think De Lange's injury problems come from that too, all the work is done in the bowling crease, rather than a build up of pace and energy from their run up.

 

[SeamUp]

Goof analysis there I think.

Just wanted to say with regard to Viljoen I don't know if we can bank on him having a long career in the professional game. All his pace comes from his action and he has already had problems with injuries. He is not like Steyn, Donald, or Holding, with those lovely smooth actions.

I think De Lange's injury problems come from that too, all the work is done in the bowling crease, rather than a build up of pace and energy from their run up.

It is a problem but there is only so much they can do. Its what has got them this far.

de Lange's comeback was delayed longer than expected as he was supposedly working on his action to offer more relief to his back. Lets hope it works.

 

[SeamUp]

Samit Patel to play for the Warriors and Sohail Tanvir for the Lions.

So. so far for the RAM SLAM T20 CHALLENGE

Cobras (Owais Shah & Azhar Mahmood)
Warriors (Samit Patel)
Dolphins (Ravi Bopara)
Knights
Lions (Sohail Tanvir)
Titans (Alfie Thomas)

 

[LegendaryProtea]

No problem mate.

First of all Dean Elgar is in a different category to the other two for me. He is an opener and a good leader. He is held in high regard by opposing teams, selectors and coaches in the country for his ability to bat long periods of time when he opens and get big hundreds. I think with SA knowing they have Duminy to come back they have the middle order depth for now. So they are giving Dean international experience as he is the next cab off the ranks for opening. Don't forget he has pushed the selectors hard also with his SA 'A' performances.

Stiaan Van Zyl is probably ahead of Rilee Rossouw at the moment. Probably due to the better management of an innings. Van Zyl is elegant but needs to turn over strike more while Rossouw is more of a 'I want to dominate you' type but it is his downfall with the selectors because they want him to play game situations more.

All have ability and have scored runs for SA 'A' so for now I would stay with Elgar for the planning reasons I mentioned above. I think the selectors have got it right.

I think with de Villiers taking the gloves and admitting he wants to keep them for now I can only see De Kock having another 4-day season with possibly some SA 'A' 4-day games in mind. I don't think he should be opening though in the longer version. Really tough on the young lad but still pulled off a decent first full 4-day season.

I think its tough for the selectors. They're backing Kleinveldt for now and hasn't done badly. Actually showed some real skill but when you don't get enough opportunities how soon do you go to the younger bowler thinking about the future.

For now Abbott and Morris seem the closest with de Lange coming back to full fitness. But its also what they bring to the table. Someone like Morris could be a replacement for Morkel tomorrow and do his role in test cricket. Really has come on leaps and bounds and was tight in the SuperSport series which is what he needed to work on as well as taking wickets.

Abbott really has grown as a player and this season Klusener has worked on his aggression in the way he targets the stumps and his bouncer. He really does hone in on the wickets and doesn't give the batsman a moments peace and he moves the ball around and is capable of getting reverse. best bowler v NZL in T20 and v Pakistan in the whites. So possibly could be a back-up to Philander.

I want to see another season or two from Gqamane. He is short and skiddy but has one heck of a heart from what I've seen. He bounds in with energy and also targets the stumps well. So for now I want to see more from him before we can say SA selection is close.

Hardus Viljoen is worth a mention, all muscle at the crease. Similar to de Lange. He can be expensive but is a wicket-taker.

Thanks for your thoughts.

I’m still unconvinced by Dean Elgar. He hasn’t looked comfortable once in all the matches I’ve seen him and his technique doesn’t seem ideal to opening in bowler-friendly South African conditions. However, one could easily say the same about Smith and Dean’s first-class record seems to suggest otherwise. I’m not overly concerned so long as JP slots back in at 7 when fit.

Yeah, I’m not keen on him opening either. Don’t the Lions have another opener they can play so that Quinny can bat in the middle order? Does he play in a similar fashion to how he plays the limited overs stuff because his SR would indicate that he does? Let’s hope he has a strong season with some big scores to merit inclusion as a batsman alone (if AB hasn’t changed his mind by then).

From what I saw of Morris in the Champions League, he seems a hit the deck hard sort of bowler. His height should enable him to extract bounce, making him a good replacement for Morkel as you point out. Also, his batting will give us an incredibly strong tail. I don’t wish to be harsh on Morkel because he was our best bowler in Australia and he hasn’t been poor by any means over the last 12 months. It’s just that he goes through periods where he bowls wide and doesn’t pose the questions that he should like Steyn and Philander do. At some point, I’d like to see Morris (or Abbott) given a chance but I can’t really see where the selectors will get either of them into the first XI.

Also, do you think Simon Harmer can develop his game to push Robbie P/Tahir for a role as frontline Test spinner? What about the prospects of Subrayen over the next 4-5 years? I’m rather worried about how we will fare in the UAE/India/Sri Lanka because I can’t see Peterson and Tahir causing major worries like Swann and Panesar have in recent times for England.

 

[Rasimione]

Thanks for your thoughts.

I’m still unconvinced by Dean Elgar. He hasn’t looked comfortable once in all the matches I’ve seen him and his technique doesn’t seem ideal to opening in bowler-friendly South African conditions. However, one could easily say the same about Smith and Dean’s first-class record seems to suggest otherwise. I’m not overly concerned so long as JP slots back in at 7 when fit.

Yeah, I’m not keen on him opening either. Don’t the Lions have another opener they can play so that Quinny can bat in the middle order? Does he play in a similar fashion to how he plays the limited overs stuff because his SR would indicate that he does? Let’s hope he has a strong season with some big scores to merit inclusion as a batsman alone (if AB hasn’t changed his mind by then).

From what I saw of Morris in the Champions League, he seems a hit the deck hard sort of bowler. His height should enable him to extract bounce, making him a good replacement for Morkel as you point out. Also, his batting will give us an incredibly strong tail. I don’t wish to be harsh on Morkel because he was our best bowler in Australia and he hasn’t been poor by any means over the last 12 months. It’s just that he goes through periods where he bowls wide and doesn’t pose the questions that he should like Steyn and Philander do. At some point, I’d like to see Morris (or Abbott) given a chance but I can’t really see where the selectors will get either of them into the first XI.

Also, do you think Simon Harmer can develop his game to push Robbie P/Tahir for a role as frontline Test spinner? What about the prospects of Subrayen over the next 4-5 years? I’m rather worried about how we will fare in the UAE/India/Sri Lanka because I can’t see Peterson and Tahir causing major worries like Swann and Panesar have in recent times for England.

From what i have observerd Morris and Abbot have the necessary tools for Test Cricket. As for Spinners, Harmer needs to do a lil bit more to get a gig. Talented player he is but Robin has done all thats veen asked of him so cant't be discarded. As for Viljoen, from what i have seen he can bowl really really fast an intimidate batsmen. problem is, he relies on raw pace and nothibg else. Gqamane is an interesting case, how he gets wickets i have no idea.

 

[SeamUp]

Thanks for your thoughts.

I’m still unconvinced by Dean Elgar. He hasn’t looked comfortable once in all the matches I’ve seen him and his technique doesn’t seem ideal to opening in bowler-friendly South African conditions. However, one could easily say the same about Smith and Dean’s first-class record seems to suggest otherwise. I’m not overly concerned so long as JP slots back in at 7 when fit.

Yeah, I’m not keen on him opening either. Don’t the Lions have another opener they can play so that Quinny can bat in the middle order? Does he play in a similar fashion to how he plays the limited overs stuff because his SR would indicate that he does? Let’s hope he has a strong season with some big scores to merit inclusion as a batsman alone (if AB hasn’t changed his mind by then).

From what I saw of Morris in the Champions League, he seems a hit the deck hard sort of bowler. His height should enable him to extract bounce, making him a good replacement for Morkel as you point out. Also, his batting will give us an incredibly strong tail. I don’t wish to be harsh on Morkel because he was our best bowler in Australia and he hasn’t been poor by any means over the last 12 months. It’s just that he goes through periods where he bowls wide and doesn’t pose the questions that he should like Steyn and Philander do. At some point, I’d like to see Morris (or Abbott) given a chance but I can’t really see where the selectors will get either of them into the first XI.

Also, do you think Simon Harmer can develop his game to push Robbie P/Tahir for a role as frontline Test spinner? What about the prospects of Subrayen over the next 4-5 years? I’m rather worried about how we will fare in the UAE/India/Sri Lanka because I can’t see Peterson and Tahir causing major worries like Swann and Panesar have in recent times for England.

I have always been a fan of Deano's since his SA u19 captaincy days. He is a real good bloke with a real good mind for the game and is talented to get through some tough conditions in SA FC cricket to average mid 40's where he has to get through new balls. Like you say if technique was everything, Smith wouldn't be the great he is today. I don't think his technique is that bad anyway, he just puts a bit more weight on his back-foot getting ready to pounce on anything short and to play the fuller ball as late as possible. Many openers have been successful with that strategy. I agree though that early on he may try to play to square but that was a problem our very own coach had and averaged 45 in test cricket.

They did open with Dominic Hendricks who was batsman of 2010 u19 CWC. He finally stepped up as well. I found it strange though that for the last game Petersen batted 3 and Quinton continuted to open. Q is definitely a see-the-ball-hit-the-ball kind of a cricketer and with more gaps in the field with a slip cordon around and his ability to score around the dial he will always score fast in the red ball game I reckon.

I understand your point re: Morkel as he can waste deliveries and it can be hugely frustrating. But our coaching staff value his experience in the role he plays and tbh many batsmen around the world say how tough it is to face him when he gets it right. But I reckon now that he his getting close to 30 mark he better work even harder with players breathing down his neck and I'm sure Donald make sure he does.

You're right re: Morris and yesterday Donald labelled him a real gem and labelled Beuran Hednricks as a star in the making as he trained with the Proteas yesterday. Can't believe I forgot to mention Beuran above. He provides a left-arm option as well.

I think we have the talent in the spinning department but it may take time. We have our experienced spinners in Robbie P and Tahir but not many with a lot of experience under their belts in spinning terms. A lot of ours are in their early 20's still and not in the mid to late 20's zone and thats not including the LO's spinners in Phangiso and vd Merwe. For example Dane Piedt (22), Simon Harmer (23), Keshav Maharaj (22), Prenelan Subrayen (19) are the finger spinners. Harmer is the closest out of all of them but I want him to regularly take wickets for SA 'A' now and play in Asian conditions. Subrayen needs to gain confidence after the bowling action issue and Maharaj is in fine form so he has competition.Our wrist spinners are Eddie Leie (26) but he is behind Tahir at the Lions & Shaun Von Berg (26) but he is too inconsistent for my liking and may face comeptition for his spot from Thomas Kaber (20) in next season's Sunfoil Series at the Titans. These spinners all went on a training camp to India so CSA are trying to grow their games.

From what i have observerd Morris and Abbot have the necessary tools for Test Cricket. As for Spinners, Harmer needs to do a lil bit more to get a gig. Talented player he is but Robin has done all thats veen asked of him so cant't be discarded. As for Viljoen, from what i have seen he can bowl really really fast an intimidate batsmen. problem is, he relies on raw pace and nothibg else. Gqamane is an interesting case, how he gets wickets i have no idea.

Agree re: Harmer, he needs to keep growing his game. He struggles in the limited overs at times because he struggles to change his pace enough. When it gets to the red ball he can land the ball in good spots and can rip it but the white ball game is different story.

 

[Marius]

I have to say I think our reserves are looking pretty healthy.

We could put out an A team which would do pretty well against the middling Test nations I think.

It can probably be attributed to the Franchise system. One can see this Strength-vs-Strength system is probably one of the main reasons why SA is the best Test side in the world at the moment.

 

[Prince EWS]

I've still never seen Harmer bowl. Really keen.

 

[SeamUp]

Quinny de Kock 126* off 69 balls to take the Lions home on Potchefstroom Highway. Highest T20 score by a batsman in South Africa.

 

[Cabinet96]

No, SuperSport (4 day games) haven't been covered in years.

Separate note, South African domestic 20/20 will now be shown on UK TV as part of Sky's new deal with CSA.

Does anyone know when this will start? Would have been good to catch de Kock's innings.