Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
Well Wayne Barnes was pivotal to South Africa winning a WC in 2007, but that's a different story.
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South Africa team selection
- Thread starter StephenZA
- Start date
sonnench
U19 12th Man
Pivotal? Nah. Benefited? Sure. All Blacks choked.
Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
We choked in 1999 and 2003, but actually played quite well in 2007 v France in that QF (but didn't get awarded any penalties, then Carter and Nick Evans got injured). and we didn't attempt a drop goal. That loss probably turned Richie McCaw into the greatest captain of all time afterwards though.
It was also a very good Springbok team back then.
StephenZA
Hall of Fame Member
Yes players lost out, but many players picked were for Coetzees (terrible) game plan and many white players picked were keeping out other deserving white players, as well. I am sure that their is pressure regarding quotas (even if they appear to never be met both by unions and SA team), but quotas or no quotas the problems in SA rugby would still be there and we would still be losing. SA rugby is falling apart because of its systems and attitude not because of quotas.
Dendarii
International Debutant
Coetzee had a game plan?
StephenZA
Hall of Fame Member
Apparently..... I just don`t think anybody new what it was.
sonnench
U19 12th Man
How were Bongi, Paige or Oupa game-plan decisions?They literally offer nothing. There are certainly other factors involved, i just feel like you're not giving enough credit to the detrimental effect quota's have. We have the talent, the Lions proved that. But when talented players, on form, are not being picked, and are not being picked by a talent less coach, of course we will lose.
Marius
International Debutant
The Lions were the least transformed team and were the best SA team in Super Rugby.
#justsaying
StephenZA
Hall of Fame Member
The only one I would possibly agree on is Bongi (even though he is not that bad compared to some others, I would not have picked Strauss and picked Marx instead) but also Coetzee knew him from the Stormers. We have no good no 9`s, Paige is probably the best kicker of the no 9`s we have, de Klerk is the best runner. Neither are great passes and neither can read the game.I dislike Hougart intensely at no 9 in SA. Reinach is the best option we have but is/was injured. I like Oupa and think he was a good selection, he did not play badly for SA. Beast was and Kolisi is more of a problem for me.
I am happy to have this discussion with you but we are taking this thread in the wrong direction. Lets start a SA rugby thread rather the during the super competition for discussion and we can watch with hands over our eyes as NZ teams crush us again.
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StephenZA
Hall of Fame Member
That's because they had the least money to buy decent players of colour (outside the Kings!).
Marius
International Debutant
Fair point.
Not saying there is really a correlation between success and lower levels of transformation, but I really think hard quotas (saying X number of players in your team have to be POCs) is bad for the sport and morale pf players.
Conversely the cricketing Lions are close to the most transformed and they've had a pretty decent few seasons recently.
StephenZA
Hall of Fame Member
I don`t like the hard quotas but Rugby is barely making an attempt. Last squad against Wales 8 of 23 players of colour and against the Baba`s it was yes 8 of 23! The 60% demand is so far off in the distance it can`t be seen... I am not saying it has no influence at all, possibly both on morale and for some players. But if you look at the problem in SA rugby structures quotas make up maybe 2% issues.... yet it is probably the 1st or 2nd thing brought up by SA rugby watches.
sonnench
U19 12th Man
Thing with Bongi is its not like he's the only hooker of colour going around. I was actually very impressed with the Kings hooker, Edgar Marutlulle, now with the Bulls and even prefer his fellow team mate Scarra over him! However, it is clear to everyone number one and two hooker should be Marx and Akkers.
Paige isn't even that great of a kicker though, not enough to be selected for that alone anyway. I thought Shaun Venter from Free State had a good year, and Ross Cronje when given the chance for the Lions played very well. Both more deserving and talented than Paige. I wholeheartedly believe de Klerk is our guy though.
Really? You really think Oupa was a good selection? He has trouble finding a starting spot in the Cheetahs backrow. He's just so one dimensional. Beast, Kolisi, and even Carr for that matter are problems for sure.
Seriously, it was so simple. Make Ackermann head coach. Pick the the almost entire Lions squad for the Boks, plus a few of the stars from the other provinces, and there ya go! But nothing is ever that simple in South Africa.
Sounds good boet! Heh, reckon the Lions and Bulls may do OK this year.
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Marius
International Debutant
Going by his accent I would guess he's more of a Rabada than an Ntini.
And according to this article he grew up in Kloof. I'm not a Durbanite but I believe that's a fairly upmarket area.
Ngidi's Hilton College cricket coach could see the potential | IOL
SeamUp
International Coach
Bavuma, Rabada, Ngidi definitely middle class and up. I mean St Davids (richest block in Africa), St Stithians and Hilton are easily top 10 most expensive schools in SA. In Hilton's case the most expensive in South Africa and they have their own postal code.
Phehlukwayo got a bursary at Glenwood. They big on bursaries to the more disadvantaged but not sure if Phehlukwayo falls in that bracket.
Andile Lucky Phehlukwayo could easily have played hockey for SA as he was in the junior squads. Quite a talented sportsmen.
Marius : Mangi Mosehle went to Johan Jurgens in your neck of the woods. Speaks very good English also and clean accent. Good school ?
Phehlukwayo got a bursary at Glenwood. They big on bursaries to the more disadvantaged but not sure if Phehlukwayo falls in that bracket.
Andile Lucky Phehlukwayo could easily have played hockey for SA as he was in the junior squads. Quite a talented sportsmen.
Marius : Mangi Mosehle went to Johan Jurgens in your neck of the woods. Speaks very good English also and clean accent. Good school ?
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Marius
International Debutant
Don't really know Johan Jurgens to be honest, think it's OK.
Duduza, where he's from, has quite a strong cricket club though, and that's probably where he at least got into cricket initially.
Marius
International Debutant
There's a debate going on, on one of the cricket pages I follow on FB about who is next in line for the WK position after QDK.
Things are a bit quiet at work so I put together the franchise stats of Mosehle, Second, and Klaasen.
Mosehle, after 49 games, averages 19.2 (and before this season he was averaging 17). Second's average, after 42 games is 38.9, while Klaasen averages 31.6 after ten games.
Things are a bit quiet at work so I put together the franchise stats of Mosehle, Second, and Klaasen.
Mosehle, after 49 games, averages 19.2 (and before this season he was averaging 17). Second's average, after 42 games is 38.9, while Klaasen averages 31.6 after ten games.
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
Second.. its in his name, right? 