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South Africa team selection

SeamUp

International Coach
Yeah... I hope it is not a terminal thing, and that it just takes a bit of adjustment to his technique to sort out.

Note Smith scored 43 as well..which is good.
Very good.

He may be 22 but hardly played any franchise cricket due to balancing of squads and limited spots. I'm not a massive fan of his bowling. 120kph for such a big guy but he certainly has skills to work on for us as a number 5/6 moving forward.
 

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
Very good.

He may be 22 but hardly played any franchise cricket due to balancing of squads and limited spots. I'm not a massive fan of his bowling. 120kph for such a big guy but he certainly has skills to work on for us as a number 5/6 moving forward.
I always found he looked faster than he actually was.... but yeah we need him to up his pace. But I think he could be a very good 6 who can bowl more than a few overs if needed. But he still needs a season at local level.
 

SeamUp

International Coach
I always found he looked faster than he actually was.... but yeah we need him to up his pace. But I think he could be a very good 6 who can bowl more than a few overs if needed. But he still needs a season at local level.
Always handy to have guys who can contribute with the ball and can bat in the top 6.

Next game they should take Smuts out and bring Shamsi back so that Zondo and Smith can be tested higher up the order and Theunis at 3.
 

91Jmay

International Coach
You guys certainly building your best depth in limited overs batting. Quite a change from traditional England because it's now the test batting line-up with a few issues.
He's better at first class cricket to be fair
 

SeamUp

International Coach
Stephen Cook

FC scores for Durham starting with most recent :

5, 2
45, 0
64, 0
2, 0

His spot is in serious jeopardy. List A has been better but not amazing.

A few months away from 35. Likeable guy and had his time in the sun but right now Kuhn/Markram just have to get a 100 in the SA 'A' games and they could replace him.
COOK WATCH

Scores of 16, 42 v Northants
 

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
I`m looking at our ODI team and am a little worried, 2 years is the WC and at that stage the people we saw yesterday will definitely no longer play... Amla, AB, Morkel (most likely) Tahir, Faf, Duminy.

That leaves Morris who is 30 now 30, Miller, Parnell, Rabada and QDK.... and the only sure players are QDK and Rabada. We really need to get some more fresh batsmen/bowlers in the team. Mulder, Markram, de Bryun and Ngidi need to spend the next 2 years in and around the squad else we really will be rebuilding from nothing.
 

SeamUp

International Coach
Markram has such an opening here... I can see Cook playing first test and he better score runs else...
Yeah you can just see them backing Cook and Duminy again.

There is also another couple of 'A' series back home v Australia and then India so interesting to see what they do. For this reason I reckon there will be only two reserve quicks.
 

SeamUp

International Coach
I`m looking at our ODI team and am a little worried, 2 years is the WC and at that stage the people we saw yesterday will definitely no longer play... Amla, AB, Morkel (most likely) Tahir, Faf, Duminy.

That leaves Morris who is 30 now 30, Miller, Parnell, Rabada and QDK.... and the only sure players are QDK and Rabada. We really need to get some more fresh batsmen/bowlers in the team. Mulder, Markram, de Bryun and Ngidi need to spend the next 2 years in and around the squad else we really will be rebuilding from nothing.
Post 2019 we can hopefully put something like this together.

QdK (wk)
Markram (c)
de Bruyn
Miller
Smith
Mulder
Morris
Parnell
Maharaj
Rabada
Ngidi

* Morris/Parnell if still around can add experience but not certainties.

Rickelton/Verreynne (wk)
J.Malan/Breetzke
du Plooy/van Tonder/Hamza/de Zorzi
M.Ackerman
Makhanya/Moonsamy
Galiem
Savage/de Swardt
Phehlukwayo
Coetzee
Dupavillon
Shamsi

12th Zuma
 
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SeamUp

International Coach
158 at Lord's. :cool:
I put this in the County thread but well done to Deano. #Traditions

Somerset Cricket ?‏Verified account @SomersetCCC 2h2 hours ago
More
Congratulations to Dean Elgar, who was presented with his County Cap yesterday!



MAYNARD: "Dean has shown immense class on and off the field of play and fully deserves this award"
 

SeamUp

International Coach
Pretty worrying that Ngidi is picking up these injuries. Been withdrawn from SA 'A' squad with a back injury.

LUNGI NGIDI has been withdrawn from the South Africa A squad for the remainder of their tour of England as he has developed a back injury. No replacement will be made.

“Lungi has developed a bone stress reaction in his back, which is not an uncommon injury in young fast bowlers,” explained Dr. Shuaib Manjra, chairperson of the Cricket South Africa (CSA) Medical Committee.

´He will return to South Africa and undergo further assessment, treatment and rehabilitation for this injury by the CSA Medical Team. We will not be able to give a timeline on his likely return to the game until we have made a further assessment,” concluded Dr. Manjra.
 

Dendarii

International Debutant
Last time it was this continues with a young bowler was Ngam.... hopefully he does not go the same way.
That was my thought too, but this is a back injury, which could simply be a young fast bowler's thing as has happened with a number of Australian bowlers. Although weren't Ngam's suspected to be as a result of poor nutrition in childhood? I don't know Ngidi's background, but maybe that's not an issue here.
 

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
So we all know that ABdV should not be captaining, he is a fantastic player but I think he puts to much pressure on himself and the team when playing as captain. He desperately wants to win a WC but his desperation emanates into his and the team. Faf is such a calm presence and needs to be made captain. Unfortunately I think that ABdV may quit cricket altogether if that happens, I hope he will not. But changes need to be made.

Duminy and Parnell must be dropped, unfortunately I am not a big fan of Pretorius at international level and Phehlukwayo needs to be given time at domestic level to improve a bit. I want to try bring in Markram, Mulder, Smith into the team. I would not mind us picking Bavuma, Kuhn either... but changes need to be made, not wholesale, and somebody needs to make difficult calls we can't keep doing the same thing over again and expecting different results.

And for the first time I think Domingo needs to go... not because he is a bad coach/player manager but because I think we need fresh thinking within the camp without the sentimentality.
 
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StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
That was my thought too, but this is a back injury, which could simply be a young fast bowler's thing as has happened with a number of Australian bowlers. Although weren't Ngam's suspected to be as a result of poor nutrition in childhood? I don't know Ngidi's background, but maybe that's not an issue here.
I don't think it should be an an issue in Ngidi's case... but lets hope he does not go the way of the Aus bowlers either.
 

SeamUp

International Coach
Yeah the performance yesterday of AB was quite disturbing. First of all at the toss when he announced same team and no Maharaj. Then that flippant shot. Then his aches and pains in the field. Then his panicked captaincy and bringing Parnell back. He will definitely not play another test in my mind.
 

SeamUp

International Coach
So we all know that ABdV should not be captaining, he is a fantastic player but I think he puts to much pressure on himself and the team when playing as captain. He desperately wants to win a WC but his desperation emanates into his and the team. Faf is such a calm presence and needs to be made captain. Unfortunately I think that ABdV may quit cricket altogether if that happens, I hope he will not. But changes need to be made.

Duminy and Parnell must be dropped, unfortunately I am not a big fan of Pretorius at international level and Phehlukwayo needs to be given time at domestic level to improve a bit. I want to try bring in Markram, Mulder, Smith into the team. I would not mind us picking Bavuma, Kuhn either... but changes need to be made, not wholesale, and somebody needs to make difficult calls we can't keep doing the same thing over again and expecting different results.

And for the first time I think Domingo needs to go... not because he is a bad coach/player manager but because I think we need fresh thinking within the camp without the sentimentality.
Our one-day teams seem to lack risk-taking when it matters. Well our key players we need particularly. Then there a few players that are carried in the team.

Amla, Qdk, Faf, AB, Miller is a damn good top 5. How does Markram break into the top 5 though ?

Thinking 2 years time ideally we have Smith and Mulder there but now might be pushing it. Pity Smith hasn't been exposed sooner due to quotas. He may not have been ready 2/3 years back but gaining that experience would have made him more ready now.

Duminy, Behardien, Parnell, Pretorius to me are definitely not LT solutions.

Really pleased with how Miller and Morris have stepped up in England at times but generally they have done for the last 18-24 months.
 
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SeamUp

International Coach
SA 'A' play Hampshire in a 4-day game today

Markram
Kuhn
de Bruyn
Bavuma
Zondo
Klaasen
Smith
Piedt
Olivier
Paterson
Dala

Second
Mulder
B.Hendricks

Probably the pecking order right now but they will all play in these FC games.

I look at that bowling and I reckon it's not good enough. Lacks excitement without Ngidi. Olivier is a workhorse but I still have doubts about him as whenever I've seen him on tv in limited overs cricket he was ok only but yet cleans up in 4-day cricket and was generally good for SA 'A' in 4-day cricket last season (well definitely our best seamer).

Markram and Kuhn is an exciting partnership with tests in mind.
de Bruyn needs a dominating knock.
Bavuma needs runs representing an SA team again.
Klaasen whilst decent, we not really looking for a keeper.
For Smith - I would like to see him score runs and bat well with the tail given a chance. Who knows it could push Duminy out the team.
 

Black_Warrior

Cricketer Of The Year
Thoughts?


AB de Villiers' star quality fading before our eye | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo

Something seems off with AB de Villiers. No, it's not just that he hasn't cracked a smile since the tournament began, but he hasn't cracked on with bat in hand either.

Apart from terse pre-match media engagements, which have lacked the usual joie de vivre of a de Villiers interaction, he's also battled through brief stints at the crease and come out bloodied. De Villiers has scored just four runs in the first two matches and does not seem to have found his rhythm.

Against Sri Lanka, de Villiers was early on the pull against Seekkuge Prasanna and through the shot by the time the ball reached him. He could only lob it to cover. That stroke came four balls into his innings, so he had barely given himself time to assess conditions before going for glory. Here, at Edgbaston, de Villiers did not even wait that long. He went after the first ball he faced, a wide one from Imad Wasim, a spinner he has never seen, and scooped it to point to depart for his first golden duck in 212 ODI innings. It had to happen some day, that it came today tells a wider story.

Despite his protestations to the contrary, de Villiers' recent form is worrying. He only made two scores over 40 in nine IPL appearances and has crossed fifty once in five ODIs since. He has scored ten or less in half of those 14 innings and has been dismissed by a spinner seven times, a left-arm spinner three.

When Kevin Pietersen had a similar problem during his career, one of the theories was that he was playing more rash strokes against left-arm spinners because he did not trust his defenses enough. The trajectory of the ball meant that, if ever he was hit on the pad, he would be in danger of an lbw, so he had to go hard at everything. De Villiers seems to be doing something similar and has saved his blocking for the press conferences.

In the week since this event began, de Villiers has taken a noticeably cooler approach to questions, especially those about the opposition and how they may threaten South Africa. Asked whether he was wary of Lasith Malinga's comeback ahead of the opening game, de Villiers said he had "played thousands of games against him", and expected Malinga to be "the same kind of bowler who does the same things". Ahead of this game, referring to Pakistan's spin quartet, de Villiers dismissed half of them as "part-time", and said South Africa felt under "no pressure".

Very quickly, that was disproved. One of the 'part-timers', Mohammad Hafeez, bowled a full quota of 10 overs and removed Quinton de Kock. Immediately after that, South Africa lost de Villiers and then three more wickets for 27 runs, to leave themselves 118 for 6 with more than 20 overs remaining in their innings. They dragged themselves to a reasonably respectable total but many of the old wounds were reopened.

There was the lack of footwork from JP Duminy, the lack of muscle from the main men, and the lack of proper support for the one player who can hold his head high. David Miller has had the opposite run in England to de Villiers and has already made two scores of significance that suggest a coming of age for player who is converting precocious talent into something more. His 71 not out against England in Southampton came in a losing cause, chasing 331 and should have got South Africa over the line, but they choked.

His unbeaten 75 here was the difference between leaving the bowlers 150 to defend and giving them 220. Without Miller, South Africa would have been embarrassed; with him they were just inadequate.

And whatever the target may have been, de Villiers still has his problems in strategising the defence. His tactics still leave much to be desired, especially whenever South Africa are under pressure. After Morne Morkel's twin dents had checked Pakistan's runaway start, Imran Tahir and Chris Morris were pulling things back. The run-rate was under four and pressure was building.

But then de Villiers brought back Wayne Parnell, whose first two covers had cost 16 runs. With rain imminent, and given Morkel's success in his first spell, when he had struck twice in his second over, bringing back Parnell was at best hopeful, at worst an error. The fact that Morkel then struck with the second ball of his comeback over, to remove the well-set Mohammad Hafeez, rather underlined the point.

After six years as ODI captain, de Villiers still does not look entirely sure of himself. While there's nothing wrong with consultation, de Villiers' discussions with his bowlers are lengthy and can happen after every ball, when the heat is on. At the same time, Faf du Plessis, the Test and T20 skipper, can often be seen giving instructions of his own, independent of de Villiers, which raises questions about who is really calling the shots out there, not to mention who should be.

Public and expert opinion has swung towards du Plessis, who has shown himself to be the more adept decision maker but, in this format, de Villiers still carries the baton.

It remains de Villiers' dream to win a major trophy but, this time, it looks as though the stars are fading from his eyes.

Firdose Moonda is ESPNcricinfo's South Africa correspondent
 

SeamUp

International Coach
Possibly. I don't watch IPL so can't judge. He did pretty well in our ODIs before Ipl.

What I do know is, his body is starting to struggle. He missed the beginning of IPL because of is injuries, missed the warm up games here and yesterday looked shot. I reckon when your back is problematic it leads to other issues.

CSA ****ed him up making him keep for so long just for balance.

As a captain he wants it too much. He wants to do everything in a rush. There is no calm. He isnt a captain. I think south African cricket has got too much hurt and baggage. We only used to sucomb to pressure later in tournaments but with every game in every major tournament we are playing with extra pressure because they so badly want to win it.
 

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