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South Africa team selection

sonnench

U19 12th Man
No real need to mess around with the team all too much. Just a case of which seamer comes in.

Cook will be under pressure though to preform. Can see Rossouw or Bavuma opening otherwise.
 

StephenZA

International Coach
Mark Taylor and African geography and cultural expert, Ian Chappell, both think Faf should be our permanent skipper.

I think I agree.

SA urged to keep Faf as skipper | Sport24
Faf is a better captain that deVillers.. Whether Faf can maintain his place in the team is the first question (as ridiculous as it is)? 2nd though is loyalty between friends and team dynamics. It was obvious that deVillers wanted the captaincy, he was not totally happy when Amla was originally announced as captain, but supported the decision. How would this strain the team and friendship between 2 players if while out injured the coaching/selection panel came back and said. "Well we have found somebody better than you so we are taking it away again?" And because we are all adults and always do whats best for the team and have no personal emotions involved! deVillers will say "of course no problems...."
 

kykweer.proteas

International Debutant
Faf is a better captain that deVillers.. Whether Faf can maintain his place in the team is the first question (as ridiculous as it is)? 2nd though is loyalty between friends and team dynamics. It was obvious that deVillers wanted the captaincy, he was not totally happy when Amla was originally announced as captain, but supported the decision. How would this strain the team and friendship between 2 players if while out injured the coaching/selection panel came back and said. "Well we have found somebody better than you so we are taking it away again?" And because we are all adults and always do whats best for the team and have no personal emotions involved! deVillers will say "of course no problems...."
I find it hard to take AB seriously (Or even Faf for the matter) Didn't they both complain that they were play too much international cricket... right before they spent 2 months at the IPL and Windies league?
 

StephenZA

International Coach
I find it hard to take AB seriously (Or even Faf for the matter) Didn't they both complain that they were play too much international cricket... right before they spent 2 months at the IPL and Windies league?
I don`t think Faf complained...deVillers did come out in the media. But it was off the back of quite an emotional and intensive cricket year for SA... whether he should have turned down the CPL, probably, think he would have been already committed to the IPL. I can`t blame a man for trying to secure his future at the age of 33 with a limited sport life. But subsequently I think he renewed his vigour and I think he really wants to play for and captain SA...
 

harsh.ag

Hall of Fame Member
AB gets way too emotional over losing imo. Worse than Steyn who just breathes fire for two hours and then cools down into a glacier again.
 

Marius

State Captain
AB gets way too emotional over losing imo. Worse than Steyn who just breathes fire for two hours and then cools down into a glacier again.
It's probably his personality.

But would rather have our best batsman be upset about losing an international match rather than being 'meh' about it.
 

harsh.ag

Hall of Fame Member
It's probably his personality.

But would rather have our best batsman be upset about losing an international match rather than being 'meh' about it.
Nah, both states suck imo. Somewhere in the middle is good.
 

Bahseph

State Regular
Emotion clouds judgement at times, and perhaps that's the reason why AB isn't the most tactically astute leader. He leads by example and his standards might just be a little too high at times. This is in contrast to Faf who seems to understand the limitations of each team mate and uses them accordingly.

That said, I can't see them asking AB to step aside just yet. They want to keep him happy and he has barely captained in Tests for there to be a fair judgement. This team becomes massively stronger with AB at 4/5.
 

Marius

State Captain
Emotion clouds judgement at times, and perhaps that's the reason why AB isn't the most tactically astute leader. He leads by example and his standards might just be a little too high at times. This is in contrast to Faf who seems to understand the limitations of each team mate and uses them accordingly.

That said, I can't see them asking AB to step aside just yet. They want to keep him happy and he has barely captained in Tests for there to be a fair judgement. This team becomes massively stronger with AB at 4/5.
The best player in the side is seldom the best captain.

Most of the great captains in history have been players with technical or other limitations. Just off the top of my head, Smith, Border, Brearley (especially Brearley), Bacher, weren't especially talented players but excellent captains.

Now absolutely brilliant players - like Botham, Lara, Sobers - generally failed as captains.

I think Bradman may be an exception, but I am open to correction.
 

AndyZaltzHair

International Coach
I wonder if they might go with Abbott for another reason - if they're worried about his fitness they might be concerned about him making a full five-day Test? And although we won the last Test match with three bowlers, there's no guarantee it'll happen again.

So, perhaps Abbott has the inside track.

So, I think the team will be the same as Perth, except Abbott in for Steyn.
Another reason for why Abbott should get the nod ahead of Morkel. You dont want another bowler breaking down during the match.
 

AndyZaltzHair

International Coach
Also since this is a team selection thread, I would really like to know the logic behind pushing a batsman (Bavuma) to opening slot. We know he has a big fighting heart but opening job is a special one and thats why we see so many openers rotated or being dropped over the course of the years from every team. I would like to know the statistical data but can assume we have seen more openers being dropped from the teams in history of cricket.
 

Bahseph

State Regular
The best player in the side is seldom the best captain.

Most of the great captains in history have been players with technical or other limitations. Just off the top of my head, Smith, Border, Brearley (especially Brearley), Bacher, weren't especially talented players but excellent captains.

Now absolutely brilliant players - like Botham, Lara, Sobers - generally failed as captains.

I think Bradman may be an exception, but I am open to correction.
I feel it has a lot to do with how you view the game. To these players it comes easy, and maybe adapting your tactics to out think a player slightly less talented than you becomes a little harder as they never had to worry about the little details of the game.
 

StephenZA

International Coach
Also since this is a team selection thread, I would really like to know the logic behind pushing a batsman (Bavuma) to opening slot. We know he has a big fighting heart but opening job is a special one and thats why we see so many openers rotated or being dropped over the course of the years from every team. I would like to know the statistical data but can assume we have seen more openers being dropped from the teams in history of cricket.
Numerous reasons.... he has opened in India last year and did a pretty good job and showed some guts considering the moral of the team at the time. SA don`t have any obvious outstanding candidates for an opening position right now (some new guys coming up, but not yet) and all our reserve/next in line are also middle order. Finally, unless Bavuma has a really bad run dropping him from the team will be difficult due to quotas, and to fit de Villers into the team we need to drop somebody. On form right now Cook would be the obvious choice. Could push QDK to open, but we really don`t want to be doing that at the moment.
 

Julian87

State Captain
The best player in the side is seldom the best captain.

Most of the great captains in history have been players with technical or other limitations. Just off the top of my head, Smith, Border, Brearley (especially Brearley), Bacher, weren't especially talented players but excellent captains.

Now absolutely brilliant players - like Botham, Lara, Sobers - generally failed as captains.

I think Bradman may be an exception, but I am open to correction.
I think this is a bit of a generalisation. Although I vehemently agree with the notion that 'your captain isn't necessarily your best player' it doesn't mean that it is seldom the case. Your captain should generally (IMO) be a pretty obvious pick. Most genuine captains have been such since they were very young. One very important thing though, when selecting your captain, is that they have to be firmly entrenched in your team. They do have to be a must pick. It's a very, very ordinary situation to be in when you're picking a player almost solely to captain (I'm thinking Khaled Mahmud style here). AFAIC Du Plessis is a must pick though, there is no way on this earth you'd leave him out for Duminy or Bavuma IMO.
 

Niall

International Captain
I agree Cook has to go when ABDV comes back, but does not have to be Bavvuma, could also get Faf or Amla to open either.
 

Tom Flint

State Captain
When ab comes back then one of bavuma, de kock, faf or duminy need to open. It's such a good order that it's not even a massive risk to ask faf or bavuma to do the job. I think Riley could force his way in by the end of the year too
 

CapeTown Guy

School Boy/Girl Captain
Faf to open... that is an interesting thought actually!

Faf, Elgar, Amla, AB, JP, Bavuma, QdK,Vern, Maharaj, Rabada, Abbott seems alright to me. Got the lefty/righty thing at the top, and i suppose you could swap the middle order however you like.
 

vcs

Request Your Custom Title Now!
The best player in the side is seldom the best captain.

Most of the great captains in history have been players with technical or other limitations. Just off the top of my head, Smith, Border, Brearley (especially Brearley), Bacher, weren't especially talented players but excellent captains.

Now absolutely brilliant players - like Botham, Lara, Sobers - generally failed as captains.

I think Bradman may be an exception, but I am open to correction.
Fair point, let Du Plessis deal with the responsibility of being captain and let De Villiers take the mantle of star batsman and all the pressure that goes with it.
 

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