Sachin is to Kohli what Maradona is to Messi?

[GoodAreasShane]

Kohli wasn't bad in the WC, but for the so called "best batsman in the world" his performances weren't at the required level.

If you constantly talk yourself up you better deliver when it truly matters.

 

[Burgey]

I don’t think he talks himself all that much tbh. Bloke has a presence which a lot of the top players do and a fair bit of swagger, but I don’t think he’s OTT in the self-love department. He’s no Stoinis anyway. I think his intensity gets seen as big headedness when it often isn’t.

Certainly a massive dickhead, but I don’t think it’s because he yaps himself up tbh.

 

[sledger]

My favourite footballer is Laurent Robert.

Weird thread this

I remember how he was black on the original Pro Evolution Soccer game for some reason. Probably my defining memory of him actually. That and that goal he scored against Arsenal once.

 

[Burner]

Kohli's would have scored a lot more this WC if the openers weren't so solid. Remember him just running out of balls in many games.

 

[Burgey]

You can say the same for Smith, fwiw, and Root to an extent as well. But I don't think Virat would be that happy with his tourney tbh. Not terrible, but he would be disappointed. I was disappointed in how he went, and I'm no India fan. I mean, games were getting left to a past it Dhoni to get India across the line with the cue, and part of that is Kohli not being at his best. Bloke's record going in strongly suggested he'd dominate, I expected him to as well. Wasn't out of nick, but never quite got going I suppose.

Gets a shot in four years at home. Will likely make up for it.

 

[SachinFan]

Hey mate, I appreciate your effort in putting these stats together, because it's a big effort to do so. But you can't seriously say Tendulkar had a better ODI record at delivering when it mattered most than either Ponting or Gilchrist, surely? Or Inzamam, come to that. I'd certainly agree he's better than Kohli in important matches, but so's Mike Veletta.

Are you serious? Are you from Pakistan? Inzamam, seriously? With an average of 32, strike rate of 73 in knockout matches, with a lone 137 as a century, is better than Tendulkar, wit7 centuries, 52 average, 86 strike rate, and multiple tournament performances like Sharjah Cup, Titan Cup, Compaq Cup, CB Series, World Cup?

Gilchrist and Ponting - I won't mind, because Gilchrist delivered in all three WC finals, and Ponting had centuries in WC final and quarter final. But Sachin was much more consistent than them, as evidenced by the big difference in both number of centuries and average. Granted, he did not have a century in WC final, but then, he scored 85, 83* and 65 in three World Cup semifinals.

 

[SachinFan]

Do you ascribe any weighting between the Titan Cup Final (massive though it no doubt was to fans all over the world) and a World Cup final?

We are having a normal discussion here, or at least attempting to, so please control your sarcasmic bout.

Of course the stages are different. There is no comparison between Titan Cup final and a WC final. But, that question comes in if Kohli bombs in Titan Cup final and delivers in WC final while Sachin bombs in WC final but delivers in Titan Cup final. As it turns out, it is not the case. Kohli bombs in both, Sachin does a terrific job in both. So the difference becomes unimportant.

 

[Kirkut]

Agreed, his batting very ugly. Shuffling across the stumps. I would have loved to watch him play against Murali and Warne on rank turner pitches, like Tendulkar and Lara did in their heydays. This ugly technique works against mediocre spinners of today, it wouldn't have worked against Warne or Murali.

On that note, I find Dhawan's batting ugly as well.

Don't buy too much into technique, that technique may look ugly but it is exactly what gets him "in the zone" and become invincible. He would have probably been an average batsman if he was too brainwashed with textbook cricket shots.

 

[Kirkut]

Anybody who is constantly shuffling across the stumps like Smith and Dhawan are dead candidates for plumb LBWs or bowled outs. Waqar in his heydays would have got Smith out probably 3 times in one over with reverse swinging yorkers.

No, considering how powerful Smith's leg side game is.

 

[Kirkut]

You forgot that LO cricket literally doesn't matter though

It does matter a lot, especially when played on good pitches where 250 is a match winning score.

 

[SachinFan]

No, considering how powerful Smith's leg side game is.

Like I said, against mediocre bowlers. His true test would have been against Waqar and Warne in their heydays. I am not saying that he would have totally tanked, but that would have created lot of problems for sure.

 

[Kirkut]

Exactly, that is what I am saying. Maradona gained that elite status because he won the World Cup virtually single handedly. Champions League is great, no doubt, but nothing beats the pedigree of World Cup.

Messi probably is the greatest footballer of all time, but in that way, Kohli is the greatest ODI batsman of all time as well, if the indices are metronomic dominance, big difference from others, consistency for years, etc. Yet as long as Kohli continues to not deliver on the big stage, voices will keep on growing stroner that scoring centuries in bilateral series does not make you a great batsman, scoring runs and winning the match on the biggest stages do.

You sound like a hypercompetitive mentor who will never settle for the second spot.

 

[Kirkut]

It’s also an insult to Tendulkar for Kohli to be compared with him at all after this WC.

I thought he’d really shine in this tourney and confirm his greatness, but he was horribly exposed especially under pressure in the KO games or when India really needed him. Surely the biggest disappointment of the WC along with Rashid Khan. Each of Root, Williamson and even Smith proved themselves better LO players when it matters, and Smith was disappointing by his standards save the semi final.

Kohli is out of the purple patch right now. He didn't do much this time but no one can forget that knock he played against Australia in World T20.

 

[Kirkut]

Like I said, against mediocre bowlers. His true test would have been against Waqar and Warne in their heydays. I am not saying that he would have totally tanked, but that would have created lot of problems for sure.

Waqar and Warne created problems for all batsmen in their heydays actually. There never was a batsman in the world who dominated bowlers at their absolute peaks, they played them well sure but no dominance as such.

 

[SachinFan]

Waqar and Warne created problems for all batsmen in their heydays actually. There never was a batsman in the world who dominated bowlers at their absolute peaks, they played them well sure but no dominance as such.

Nope. Warne never caused problems for Sachin and Lara, both of them owned Warne completely. Lara totally owned Murali, while with Sachin, it was 60-40 with Murali. It is okay for bowlers to cause trouble, which like you said, will happen for a batsman facing a bowler in his prime. But it is one thing to be troubled, another to be owned. Like Mcgrath owned Atherton, body and soul. What I am guessing is that Waqar would have owned Smith like that.

 

[trundler]

Some retrospective deification is at play here. Smith has exceptionally quick hands and Waqar could be very expensive so no reason to assume Smith wouldn't have just milked him on the legside. Also, Smith's social ineptness might mean he would not have fallen prey to Warne's mind games, ha.

 

[SachinFan]

Kohli is out of the purple patch right now. He didn't do much this time but no one can forget that knock he played against Australia in World T20.

Agreed. That innings was legendary indeed. However, as much as I want to, I cannot judge the pedigree of a batsman by T20. Particularly when the player he is being pitted against, Sachin, never played it. If Sachin played T20 in his heydays, he would have caused rampages. Just yesterday, I was watching the highlights of the 2nd or 3rd ODI from the 2001 Australia tour of India. Tendulkar scored 62 of 38 balls. The other batsmen during his tenure at the crease scored 23 of 56 balls. The opponent bowlers were Mcgrath, Warne and Fleming. Such was the dominance of Tendulkar in his heydays.

 

[trundler]

Don't forget the 72 off 27 in Cricket Max

 

[SachinFan]

Some retrospective deification is at play here. Smith has exceptionally quick hands and Waqar could be very expensive so no reason to assume Smith wouldn't have just milked him on the legside. Also, Smith's social ineptness might mean he would not have fallen prey to Warne's mind games, ha.

Not totally retrospective. I could have mentioned Mcgrath, Donald as well, both of whom are superior to Waqar by a distance. I mentioned Waqar because his signature delivery was the reverse swinging yorkers plunging directly into the leg stumps of the right handed batsman. Smith's shuffling is the perfect candidate for getting out on those balls. Smith could have eventually managed to figure him out, but not before lot of trouble and a thorough reassessment of his batting technique, at least while facing Waqar.

 

[SachinFan]

Don't forget the 72 off 27 in Cricket Max

Yeah, that too, although the bowling attack was subpar, and the boundary lines were drawn to half their original size.