Ravindra Jadeja vs Saqlain Mushtaq

[Sunil1z]

And in case people are wondering why I mentioned Clarke and Smith specifically, then it is because Jadeja averages less than 19 against Australia as TJB had mentioned earlier .

 

[Sunil1z]

Jadeja wasnt facing Smith and Clarke every game. It's more about the general quality of bats, and players of spin that they faced.

And you are in denial if you don't think that home pitches helped Jadeja a great deal.

And you are in denial regarding Saqlain’s inability to win Test matches against Aus and SA ( top 2 Test side of 90s and early 00)
[ 1 Test win and 10 Test loss]

And if Saqlain had weaker support players then that means that Wasim, Waqar , Inzamam and Anwar were minnow bashers.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Jadejas home record is just insane. Averages 20 with the ball and 40 with the bat.

 

[subshakerz]

And you are in denial regarding Saqlain’s inability to win Test matches against Aus and SA ( top 2 Test side of 90s and early 00)
[ 1 Test win and 10 Test loss]

And if Saqlain had weaker support players then that means that Wasim, Waqar , Inzamam and Anwar were minnow bashers.

No denial about that, he was largely underwhelming against them except for that great six-for in Hobart. But that was an ATG Aussie side.

I think the issues for Jadeja are bigger though.

 

[Sunil1z]

No denial about that, he was largely underwhelming against them except for that great six-for in Hobart. But that was an ATG Aussie side.

I think the issues for Jadeja are bigger though.

No it isn’t
The top 3 Australian batsman against spin I have seen : Martyn , Smith and Clarke

Top 3 SA batsman against spin I have seen:Amla, Kallis and Devilliers

And Jadeja has bowled successfully against 4 of these 6 . Didn’t bowl against Martyn and bowled in just 1 test against Kallis in which he took 6/125
Jadeja would have destroyed AUS and SA of 90s who were nowhere as capable against spin than their 2000 counter part .


If Saqlain was such a good all- condition bowler why Pakistan couldn’t win even 1 Test series outside Asia in matches he played
And if your logic is that Pakistan was a weak side , then are you accusing Wasim, Waqar , Anwar and Inzamam of being minnow- bashers ?

India have won 3 Test series outside Asia ( involving Jadeja)

 

[subshakerz]

No it isn’t
The top 3 Australian batsman against spin I have seen : Martyn , Smith and Clarke

Top 3 SA batsman against spin I have seen:Amla, Kallis and Devilliers

And Jadeja has bowled successfully against 4 of these 6 . Didn’t bowl against Martyn and bowled in just 1 test against Kallis in which he took 6/125
Jadeja would have destroyed AUS and SA of 90s who were nowhere as capable against spin than their 2000 counter part .


If Saqlain was such a good all- condition bowler why Pakistan couldn’t win even 1 Test series outside Asia in matches he played
And if your logic is that Pakistan was a weak side , then are you accusing Wasim, Waqar , Anwar and Inzamam of being minnow- bashers ?

India have won 3 Test series outside Asia ( involving Jadeja)

There are better arguments you can make in favor of Jadeja. Conflating individual and team performance is not one of them.

 

[Sunil1z]

There are better arguments you can make in favor of Jadeja. Conflating individual and team performance is not one of them.

No team argument is perfectly valid . Because I rate Pakistan team of 90s extremely highly.

If you ask me top 3 Asian sides : IND (07-11) , Pak of 90s and Kohli’s side

So when we compare players playing in Teams of nearly same strength , then players will have to take the praise and criticism regarding Team’s performance.

 

[Daemon]

Jadeja for me because I think Saqlain chucked a not insignificant portion of the time.

Ignoring the chucking it's basically down to the importance you ascribe to home vs away. I'll say Jadeja because he's basically a cheat code at home and a decent supporting act overseas.

 

[subshakerz]

No team argument is perfectly valid . Because I rate Pakistan team of 90s extremely highly.

If you ask me top 3 Asian sides : IND (07-11) , Pak of 90s and Kohli’s side

So when we compare players playing in Teams of nearly same strength , then players will have to take the praise and criticism regarding Team’s performance.

I think Daemon's argument is better when he openly favors Jadeja's home impact as to why he selects him over Saqlain. I don't agree with it but it is a credible argument.

You bring in the entire team in the equation with so many factors including the strength of the opposition as well. You will end up rating MacGill ahead of Murali based on this argument.

 

[Sunil1z]

I think Daemon's argument is better when he openly favors Jadeja's home impact as to why he selects him over Saqlain. I don't agree with it but it is a credible argument.

You bring in the entire team in the equation with so many factors including the strength of the opposition as well. You will end up rating MacGill ahead of Murali based on this argument.

How ?
Do you believe 90s Pak and Kohli’s India were of nearly same strength? Yes or No

Your argument makes sense only when you believe India were much stronger than Pak of 90s and so Jadeja benefited from playing in a much stronger side.

 

[Coronis]

I think Daemon's argument is better when he openly favors Jadeja's home impact as to why he selects him over Saqlain. I don't agree with it but it is a credible argument.

You bring in the entire team in the equation with so many factors including the strength of the opposition as well. You will end up rating MacGill ahead of Murali based on this argument.

Yeah Murali only won SL a few matches outside Asia. Most against Zimbabwe. What a loser.

 

[Sunil1z]

Yeah Murali only won SL a few matches outside Asia. Most against Zimbabwe. What a loser.

And this is because SL were mostly average to good side when Murali played ?

Do you believe Pak side of 90s were average side and Saqlain shouldn’t be criticised for his inability to make his side win against Aus / SA?

 

[anil1405]

Based on a new criteria I recently discovered.... Jadeja has a better 'spread' of performance across his career as compared to Saqlain so I'll give the vote to the rockstar.

 

[Sunil1z]

I mean in the upcoming BG trophy where IND and AUS are nearly matched , should either of Smith/Kohli/Cummins/Ashwin/Lyon/Labu/Rohit be criticised or not if their Team loses due to their poor performance?

 

[subshakerz]

How ?
Do you believe 90s Pak and Kohli’s India were of nearly same strength? Yes or No

Your argument makes sense only when you believe India were much stronger than Pak of 90s and so Jadeja benefited from playing in a much stronger side.

Kohli's side was stronger than Pak of 90s, especially at home, and the Australia and SA that Saqlain's Pakistan faced were generally stronger than the ones Kohli's side faced. So stop this silly argument. You prefer Jadeja because of his all-star home numbers, which is fine.

 

[subshakerz]

I mean in the upcoming BG trophy where IND and AUS are nearly matched , should either of Smith/Kohli/Cummins/Ashwin/Lyon/Labu/Rohit be criticised or not if their Team loses due to their poor performance?

They should just be criticized for their poor performance and the series loss blamed on the entire team.

 

[Sunil1z]

They should just be criticized for their poor performance and the series loss blamed on the entire team.

And that poor performance should be held against them in future comparison.

I mean for eg . Kohli fails in BG Trophy 23 and Root succeds in Ashes 23 , then this point should be used in favour of Root.

 

[Coronis]

And this is because SL were mostly average to good side when Murali played ?

Do you believe Pak side of 90s were average side and Saqlain shouldn’t be criticised for his inability to make his side win against Aus / SA?

Nah I was just saying Murali wasn’t a matchwinner so MacGill > Murali.

 

[BazBall21]

Saqlain has a better SENA record than Ashwin and Jadeja. Ashwin’s monster wicket count gives him extra points though.

 

[trundler]

I'd go Ashwin >> Saqlain > Jadeja mostly because Jadeja looked so bad in England and NZ. Didn't even look 5th bowler standard.