Ravindra Jadeja vs Saqlain Mushtaq

[PlayerComparisons]

Two very good spinners

 

[Anil]

the answer of course is jadeja.

 

[ankitj]

Very hard to vote against either. I was a Saqlain fanboy in late 90s. And of course everyone loves Jadeja.

 

[honestbharani]

Saqlain had that awesome 6 fer in Australia. But other than that, I think Jaddu has been a bigger matchwinner with the ball in tests.

 

[subshakerz]

Saqlain had that awesome 6 fer in Australia. But other than that, I think Jaddu has been a bigger matchwinner with the ball in tests.

Jadeja pretty much mostly won matches at home. So we go back to how to value, or overvalue in the case of certain Indian fans, home bullying ability vs all-conditions skill. I heavily favor the latter, especially for a spinner who can win matches away from home.

Saqlain had some very good away performances in Australia, England, and NZ that Jadeja completely lacks. Saqlain's series against India was one of the greatest series by a spinner ever and he was the first spinner to really trouble Tendulkar in his prime. Saqlain also generally faced some generally better quality players of spin as well without the friendly pitches that Jadeja built his career on.

Saqlain regardless of where he was was seen by Pakistan as a matchwinner, whereas Jadeja was droppable outside of Asia as a pure spinner. Plus he introduced the doosra so was a trailblazer.

All reasons for me to favor him ahead of Jadeja.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Jadeja pretty much mostly won matches at home. So we go back to how to value, or overvalue in the case of certain Indian fans, home bullying ability vs all-conditions skill. I heavily favor the latter, especially for a spinner who can win matches away from home.

Saqlain had some very good away performances in Australia, England, and NZ that Jadeja completely lacks. Saqlain's series against India was one of the greatest series by a spinner ever and he was the first spinner to really trouble Tendulkar in his prime. Saqlain also generally faced some generally better quality players of spin as well without the friendly pitches that Jadeja built his career on.

Saqlain regardless of where he was was seen by Pakistan as a matchwinner, whereas Jadeja was droppable outside of Asia as a pure spinner. Plus he introduced the doosra so was a trailblazer.

All reasons for me to favor him ahead of Jadeja.

Ignoring longevity, who do you rate higher as a bowler, Ashwin or Swann?

 

[subshakerz]

Ignoring longevity, who do you rate higher as a bowler, Ashwin or Swann?

Swann over Ashwin if you ignore longevity for the same reasons as Saqlain. Swann was an all-conditions matchwinner.

With longevity though, Ashwin takes it. Can't ignore his mountains of wickets.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Saqlain as a bowler for sure

 

[subshakerz]

The subcontinent is full of spinners with impressive numbers at home yet were ordinary away. They never were rated as highly and for good reason.

Jadeja has better numbers than them at home but he also had very friendly pitches to bowl on.

 

[Sunil1z]

It is Jadeja by miles .

Funny you bring turning tracks for Jadeja without mentioning Saqlain bowled on the most spin friendly track in 99 series in IND in which both Kumble and Saqlain ran riot and nobody except Ramesh and Anwar could score above 250.
When Clarke was in God mode in 2012, it was Jadeja who dismissed him 5 out of 6 times next year in 2013 .
In 2017 series against Steve Smith , he was the MoS.

Saqlain could never win Pak test series against AUS and SA in his career unlike Jadeja.

 

[subshakerz]

It is Jadeja by miles .

Funny you bring turning tracks for Jadeja without mentioning Saqlain bowled on the most spin friendly track in 99 series in IND in which both Kumble and Saqlain ran riot and nobody except Ramesh and Anwar could score above 2012.
When Clarke was in God mode in 2012, it was Jadeja who dismissed him 5 out of 6 times next year in 2013 .
In 2017 series against Steve Smith , he was the MoS.

Saqlain could never win Pak test series against AUS and SA in his career unlike Jadeja.

Irrelevant.

The pitches Saqlain played at home in the 90s were nowhere near as good as what Jadeja had.

I will assume you never watched Saqlain bowl live to make such a judgment.

Anyways, Jadeja as an away bowler has yet to win a game in his career, which for me disqualifies him.

 

[Sunil1z]

Irrelevant.

The pitches Saqlain played at home in the 90s were nowhere near as good as what Jadeja had.

I will assume you never watched Saqlain bowl live to make such a judgment.

Anyways, Jadeja as an away bowler has yet to win a game in his career, which for me disqualifies him.

Just because Pakistan can not win Test series against AUS and SA that doesn’t make Jadeja’s record against AUS and SA irrelevant

Jadeja has better record in Aus than Saqlain
Jadeja has better record in SA than Saqlain.

Saqlain like Swann retired mid -series to protect his average from Sehwag . Otherwise he would be averaging above 30 if he had played full 2004 series against IND.

 

[Sunil1z]

Both Swann and Saqlain retired mid-series to protect their bowling average from going above 30.
It took Sehwag 1 Test to derail Saqlain bowling career.

Pakistan played 14 Tests vs Aus and SA involving Saqlain. Pak won 1 and lost 10 . No wonder performance against AUS and SA is irrelevant and only win in ENG and NZ in 90s should count.

 

[subshakerz]

Just because Pakistan can not win Test series against AUS and SA that doesn’t make Jadeja’s record against AUS and SA irrelevant

Jadeja has better record in Aus than Saqlain
Jadeja has better record in SA than Saqlain.

Saqlain like Swann retired mid -series to protect his average from Sehwag . Otherwise he would be averaging above 30 if he had played full 2004 series against IND.

Winning a series has to do with team strength. Otherwise MacGill is a better bowler than Murali by your measure.

Jadeja in Australia and SA was a support bowler with no spells of consequence.

Saqlain was returning with knee injury and then dropped. He was a victim of Pakistani cricket.

 

[subshakerz]

Both Swann and Saqlain retired mid-series to protect their bowling average from going above 30.
It took Sehwag 1 Test to derail Saqlain bowling career.

Pakistan played 14 Tests vs Aus and SA involving Saqlain. Pak won 1 and lost 10 . No wonder performance against AUS and SA is irrelevant and only win in ENG and NZ in 90s should count.

I never said performances against AUS and SA are irrelevant. But Saqlain only played three tests and Jadeja one test against SA and neither did much.

Against Australia, again neither much outside of Saqlain's super 6-fer in Hobart.

Anyways, we judge bowlers differently. I care about matchwinning potential outside of just raw numbers.

 

[TheJediBrah]

If Saqlain had the overall conditions and opposition that Jadeja has had in his career he'd be averaging like 19

 

[TheJediBrah]

Saqlain was a chucker though so should probably be disqualified anyway

 

[Sunil1z]

If Saqlain had the overall conditions and opposition that Jadeja has had in his career he'd be averaging like 19

Yeah I always thought Steve Smith and Clarke were crap Test batsman . Thanks for the confirmation

 

[subshakerz]

Yeah I always thought Steve Smith and Clarke were crap Test batsman . Thanks for the confirmation

Jadeja wasnt facing Smith and Clarke every game. It's more about the general quality of bats, and players of spin that they faced.

And you are in denial if you don't think that home pitches helped Jadeja a great deal.

 

[subshakerz]

Saqlain was a chucker though so should probably be disqualified anyway

I don't think he was. He bowled his doosra is a different way than Murali and the others, by tilting his body the other way as he approached the crease rather than bending his arm.