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Ranking the candidates for best fast/pace bowler ever: The Rankings thread

ataraxia

ataraxia

International Coach
Redsok said:
Sobers only bowled A LOT of spells, because that Windies team didn't have many bowling options. Not good ones. It was also a completely different era.. Even the most below average bowlers looked great, and took wickets.
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Griffith, Hall, Gibbs, Valentine, Ramadhin as specialists.
Worrell, Atkinson, Goddard as part-timers...
 
stephen

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Redsok said:
Yikes boy..





That's exactly what all the noobs say who never actually watched Sobers play, but only watched some highlights and heard a bunch of old heads romanticizing Sobers.





Even if Sobers was the "better" batsman to many people.. NUMBERS don't lie. Kallis looks far superior, or the exact same.. at WORST. Depends how you want to look at it. Numbers don't care about your "personal opinion". That's just your opinion.. Numbers are Facts.



Of course, Context also matters.









But when it comes to bowling, it's not even close. Kallis was the superior bowler. The fact that you said Sobers was the "superior" bowler, completely contradicts your statement. You lose all credibility, and sound like spewing horse ****.



SOBERS WAS AN AVERAGE BOWLER. It's not just his bowling stats are so horrendous, especially that strike rate.. but he was literally just a world class batsman who could bowl. Never was a "good/great" bowler.



If Sobers was playing for a better team, or even the South Africa team that Kallis played for.. Sobers wouldn't even bowl a single bloody over. He'd be in the team purely as the best batsman.









For context..





Sobers was the same QUALITY of a bowler that Steve Smith was, before he turned into a batting God.



Sobers only bowled A LOT of spells, because that Windies team didn't have many bowling options. Not good ones. It was also a completely different era.. Even the most below average bowlers looked great, and took wickets.



And don't forget.. just because someone is bowling "different stuff".. doesn't make them an effective or great bowler. Joe Root also bowls off spin and leg spin. Doesn't mean he's a great bowler. He's a semi-decent part timer.





Tendulkar bowled medium pace, leg spin and off spin. Doesn't mean he was ever a "good" bowler. Just another world class batsman, and a part time bowler, with some good spells here and there. Mostly due to the "surprise" element. That's why part timers often roll their arm. Surprise









But if Tendulkar had lived in the Sobers era, and was doing the same things back then.. everyone would just freak out and end up calling him a GREAT bowler.. and the greatest 'All Rounder'. Pure nonsense.



Then Fast forward to 2020, and people would just romanticize and OVERRATE Tendulkar's bowling outrageously. Even the dumb youngins who never really watched him play. That's how easy it is.. Revisionist history







And to ya last point. You also mentioned, "superior fielder". That's also complete nonsense.





Kallis was also known as one of the greatest fielders and slip catchers... He did that for 2 decades. Literally the definition of an All Rounder. Not just "decent" in anything. But game changers with EVERYTHING.







Sobers was arguably the 2nd greatest batsman, post Bradman.







But Kallis..



One of the greatest batsman, with more centuries and runs than 95% of all "specialist" batsmen. One of he greatest fielders, with 2ND MOST CATCHES IN THE HISTORY OF THE SPORT.



And.. One of the best bowlers, especially for his first 15 years. 140kph swing bowler, and CONSISTENT.. If that South Africa team didn't have such a crazy bowling line up, then Kallis would have bowled even more.. mostly as a 1st change. But i doubt that'd have been good for his longevity, especially since Kallis also had to be the best batsman for South Africa. Especially in Test cricket





That type of bowling is superior to anything Sobers ever could do.. But oh no.. "sobers bowled so many different things at once.. he must be the better bowler.. " LOL Idiots.
Click to expand...
Ok
 
NotMcKenzie

NotMcKenzie

International Debutant
Redsok said:
Yikes boy..





That's exactly what all the noobs say who never actually watched Sobers play, but only watched some highlights and heard a bunch of old heads romanticizing Sobers.





Even if Sobers was the "better" batsman to many people.. NUMBERS don't lie. Kallis looks far superior, or the exact same.. at WORST. Depends how you want to look at it. Numbers don't care about your "personal opinion". That's just your opinion.. Numbers are Facts.



Of course, Context also matters.









But when it comes to bowling, it's not even close. Kallis was the superior bowler. The fact that you said Sobers was the "superior" bowler, completely contradicts your statement. You lose all credibility, and sound like spewing horse ****.



SOBERS WAS AN AVERAGE BOWLER. It's not just his bowling stats are so horrendous, especially that strike rate.. but he was literally just a world class batsman who could bowl. Never was a "good/great" bowler.



If Sobers was playing for a better team, or even the South Africa team that Kallis played for.. Sobers wouldn't even bowl a single bloody over. He'd be in the team purely as the best batsman.









For context..





Sobers was the same QUALITY of a bowler that Steve Smith was, before he turned into a batting God.



Sobers only bowled A LOT of spells, because that Windies team didn't have many bowling options. Not good ones. It was also a completely different era.. Even the most below average bowlers looked great, and took wickets.



And don't forget.. just because someone is bowling "different stuff".. doesn't make them an effective or great bowler. Joe Root also bowls off spin and leg spin. Doesn't mean he's a great bowler. He's a semi-decent part timer.





Tendulkar bowled medium pace, leg spin and off spin. Doesn't mean he was ever a "good" bowler. Just another world class batsman, and a part time bowler, with some good spells here and there. Mostly due to the "surprise" element. That's why part timers often roll their arm. Surprise









But if Tendulkar had lived in the Sobers era, and was doing the same things back then.. everyone would just freak out and end up calling him a GREAT bowler.. and the greatest 'All Rounder'. Pure nonsense.



Then Fast forward to 2020, and people would just romanticize and OVERRATE Tendulkar's bowling outrageously. Even the dumb youngins who never really watched him play. That's how easy it is.. Revisionist history







And to ya last point. You also mentioned, "superior fielder". That's also complete nonsense.





Kallis was also known as one of the greatest fielders and slip catchers... He did that for 2 decades. Literally the definition of an All Rounder. Not just "decent" in anything. But game changers with EVERYTHING.







Sobers was arguably the 2nd greatest batsman, post Bradman.







But Kallis..



One of the greatest batsman, with more centuries and runs than 95% of all "specialist" batsmen. One of he greatest fielders, with 2ND MOST CATCHES IN THE HISTORY OF THE SPORT.



And.. One of the best bowlers, especially for his first 15 years. 140kph swing bowler, and CONSISTENT.. If that South Africa team didn't have such a crazy bowling line up, then Kallis would have bowled even more.. mostly as a 1st change. But i doubt that'd have been good for his longevity, especially since Kallis also had to be the best batsman for South Africa. Especially in Test cricket





That type of bowling is superior to anything Sobers ever could do.. But oh no.. "sobers bowled so many different things at once.. he must be the better bowler.. " LOL Idiots.
Click to expand...
O




K
 
NotMcKenzie

NotMcKenzie

International Debutant
OverratedSanity said:
@Redsok Kallis was a massive minnow basher as a bowler
Click to expand...
Dontcha mean:


Haven't you SEEN the sorts that Kallis bowled against. The CONTEXT of who he was bowling qualifies how good he actually WAS.




Sobers bowled against WORLD-CLASS players. He took on the RESPONSIBILITY of leading the West Indies attack. Only a MORON would fail to recognise this.




Kallis just bowled against MINNOWS. He has not the RIGHT to be considered in the same tier of players.





Not only was Sobers the one of the GREATEST batsmen in the world and a PROPER all-rounder, but he was also an EXCELLENT fielder.




Sobers took 109 catches in 93 tests, 1.17 a test. Kallis took 200 in 166 test, 1.2 a test, BARELY any difference.




And if you KNEW any about the changes that have taken place in test cricket, you would KNOW that in Sobers's day, batsmen DIDN'T hit the ball in the AIR as much. That means FEWER chances. Anyone who doesn't get this is IGNORANT.
 
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