Quinton de Kock

[cnerd123]

How exactly was Gilchrist revolutionary? He is a clear evolution of what Sanath did.

Who himself was an evolution of Mark Greatbach ftr

 

[CapeTown Guy]

Yes I remember Jayasuriya and Greatbach keeping wicket to great effect.

Are you guys being deliberately obtuse or just a bit slow?

 

[harsh.ag]

Him being a keeper has little to do with whether or not he revolutionized ODI batting. Jayasuriya had already done what he did, and some might say, done it better.

 

[Daemon]

Yes I remember Jayasuriya and Greatbach keeping wicket to great effect.

Are you guys being deliberately obtuse or just a bit slow?

The exact quote was

Gilchrist's batting was actually pretty revolutionary for an opener in ODIs

 

[CapeTown Guy]

The argument was that Gilchrist revolutionised the role of a keeper batsman, so I dont know what you are on about. The whole thread has been talking about wicketkeepers.

 

[Black_Warrior]

Who himself was an evolution of Mark Greatbach ftr

Saeed Anwar was the real version. Sanath and Co followed.

Gilchrist changed the role of the opener for the Australian team who in the 90s were a tad outdated with Tubby Taylor opening the batting.

 

[harsh.ag]

The argument was that Gilchrist revolutionised the role of a keeper batsman, so I dont know what you are on about. The whole thread has been talking about wicketkeepers.

But he didn't really. It's a flawed argument. He was basically carrying on from Jayasuriya when it comes to his batting. The fact that he was a keeper isn't big of a deal. In tests, he definitely revolutionized the role. No arguments there.

Dhoni probably more of a trailblazer than Gilly in this regard.

 

[Daemon]

The argument was that Gilchrist revolutionised the role of a keeper batsman, so I dont know what you are on about. The whole thread has been talking about wicketkeepers.

Once again, everyone was responding to this -

Gilchrist's batting was actually pretty revolutionary for an opener in ODIs

The argument Red Hill was making that even if you consider Gilly and Sanga equals in keeping, Gilchrist's batting revolutionised ODI batting for openers. He was taking keeping out of the equation.

 

[CapeTown Guy]

@Daemon, thanks for quoting just the bit where wicketkeepers aren't mentioned. Here is the whole thing in case you missed it:

I'll tolerate that Dhoni was on par with Gilchrist and I'll perhaps even tolerate that he is better (but not IMO)

But thinking that Sangakkara is a better WK batsman in ODIs over Gilchrist is stupid. Gilchrist opened, and was probably the greatest ODI opener ever, Tendulkar aside. His SR of almost 100 was crazy.

Even if we say Gilchrist and Sanga were on par as keepers, Gilchrist's batting was actually pretty revolutionary for an opener in ODIs, and when Gilchrist launched, there was no better sight in cricket, and I doubt any batsman ever has intimidated and dominated in ODIs ever, apart from Viv.

A wicketkeeper, opening the batting and setting the world alight. This is a now nine-page thread about a young wicketkeeping batsman who is doing the same and is being compared to the former.

The above quote is clearly talking about Gilchrist as a batsman in the context of being a keeper.

Why mention Sanath and not Kalu when it makes a far better comparison?

Whether Dhoni has done more to revolutionise the role of keeper-batsman is a different discussion.

 

[Daemon]

@Daemon, thanks for quoting just the bit where wicketkeepers aren't mentioned. Here is the whole thing in case you missed it:



A wicketkeeper, opening the batting and setting the world alight. This is a now nine-page thread about a young wicketkeeping batsman who is doing the same and is being compared to the former.

The above quote is clearly talking about Gilchrist as a batsman in the context of being a keeper.

Why mention Sanath and not Kalu when it makes a far better comparison?

Whether Dhoni has done more to revolutionise the role of keeper-batsman is a different discussion.

Like I mentioned in my edit, Red Hill was specifically referring to his batting in that statement which is what others were disputing. He wasn't saying that Gilchrist revolutionised the role of keeper batsmen in cricket, he specifically said that his batting was revolutionary for an opener.

 

[honestbharani]

Saeed Anwar was the real version. Sanath and Co followed.

Gilchrist changed the role of the opener for the Australian team who in the 90s were a tad outdated with Tubby Taylor opening the batting.

If we are playing this game, the real version is actually Krish Srikkanth.

And if we are talking about Keepers coming out to open the innings in ODIs and blazing away, the pioneer would be Kalu.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Even Sachin was doing it well before Gilchrist. SRT's strike rate in the mid-late 90s was remarkable. There's really nothing revolutionary about Gilchrist's ODI batting.

 

[honestbharani]

Yep.. revisionist BS spouted out when anyone ever brings up his middling ODI average tbh.

 

[harsh.ag]

Even Sachin was doing it well before Gilchrist. SRT's strike rate in the mid-late 90s was remarkable. There's really nothing revolutionary about Gilchrist's ODI batting.

This is interesting because this one actually has a reason imo. Sachin's game, while explosive, was many a time technically sound and sometimes beautiful and that makes it look more refined than a Jayasuriya innings. Don't know if that makes sense tbh.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I think Sanath deserves the most credit for it though. Srikkanth and Greatbatch may have done it before but they weren't nearly as successful, Sachin may have done it as well but he wasn't going to always be in attack mode like Sanath. But jayasuriya sustained that over a long period and won the WC with that approach. It genuinely was a turning point when people realized you can actually win the big tournaments playing like that.

 

[honestbharani]

Yeah.. agree with all that. But just going by the idea of who actually did it first, its always Srikkanth. And among keepers, it was always Kalu. Gilly did not revolutionize anything as a batsman in ODI cricket and is grossly overrated as an ODI batsman at least here, simply because of the way he batted.

 

[vcs]

Sanath is definitely an ODI ATG.. maybe my '90s bias here and his general awesomemess against India but I'd rate him above Sanga in ODIs.

 

[CapeTown Guy]

Obviously we are talking about different things here and the thread has been somewhat derailed.

On topic though - Quinny !

 

[Tec15]

Yeah.. agree with all that. But just going by the idea of who actually did it first, its always Srikkanth. And among keepers, it was always Kalu. Gilly did not revolutionize anything as a batsman in ODI cricket and is grossly overrated as an ODI batsman at least here, simply because of the way he batted.

Yep. Made the exact point.

 

[SeamUp]

KING