Placing our bets on "Test Cricket's Young Fab Four"

[Zinzan]

I can sort of buy Smith not being the standout best but Blocky just doesn't think he's a good batsman full stop, which renders all this argument pointless nonsense tbh.

I'm sure the way he looks at the crease plays a big part with Smith tbh. It took me a long time to take him seriously watching him bat, and I kept naturally thinking he'll be found out sooner or later, whether it's bowlers sneaking in the odd leg-stump yorker or some unorthodox field placements... but he's proved he can score runs successfully playing the way he does.

I used to think the same about Graeme Smith when I first saw him, & assumed he's end up averaging low 40s and being LBW playing across the line, but to his credit, he hardly ever missed.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I forgot about Starc. Should really be the Fab 5 with his recent batting form.

 

[Spark]

This is not about their home records. Voges has failed in England in SL. Warner was ****e in SL, NZ and England.

Smith has literally not had a bad overseas series since he came good back in 2013/14.

Yeah people not rating Voges was because he stunk it up when it mattered having been literally picked for English conditions.

 

[Blocky]

This is not about their home records. Voges has failed in England in SL. Warner was ****e in SL, NZ and England.

Smith has literally not had a bad overseas series since he came good back in 2013/14.

He had a bad series in Sri Lanka, scoring a meaningless century inflated his average there.
He had a bad series against South Africa, again, scoring meaningless runs when it didn't matter.

 

[Slifer]

I also realise that Smith plays the majority of his tests in Australia on absolute roads where even half blind Taylor manages to score 290. That's the entire point, if they were all batting in the same conditions, you could accurately ascertain their talent, but the reality is, Smith is batting in the easiest conditions against some of the easiest bowling he'll ever see.

When that's not the case, he fails - Herath in Sri Lanka, Abbott/Philander/Rabada in Australia, and pretty soon Ashwin/Jadeja in India.

Smith most certainly didnot fail vs herath or at home to rsa. And if aussie pitches are such roads, pray tell how the great root failed on them so miserably...I await the excuses.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Where was Smith in Sri Lanka? Where was Smith against South Africa? Where will Smith be against India.

He won't be doing what Root has done, that's for sure.

He did pretty much what Root did. Be solid if not spectacular and got some runs, but wasn't able to prevent a loss because the rest of his team sucks.

 

[Jono]

yeah its very CW now. Stat picking etc. which isn't in itself bad, but its two heads banging against each other.

There is 0% chance of changing Blocky's mind it seems.

He had a bad series in Sri Lanka, scoring a meaningless century inflated his average there.
He had a bad series against South Africa, again, scoring meaningless runs when it didn't matter.

and Blocky describing Smith's ton vs. Lanka as meaningless proves this I think

 

[Blocky]

yeah its very CW now. Stat picking etc. which isn't in itself bad, but its two heads banging against each other.

There is 0% chance of changing Blocky's mind it seems.

Statistically, Smith is obviously the best player (with Voges) in the last 36 months.

I'm assessing based on their actual technique, ability to score runs when it matters and how they look against quality bowling. Smith has looked pretty damn average against quality bowling in helpful conditions. Root on the other hand has been one of the only players in the world who does it when it matters.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Yeah people not rating Voges was because he stunk it up when it mattered having been literally picked for English conditions.

lol and now he can't even buy a run in the Big Bash batting at 7 behind David Willey and Sam Whiteman

what a fall from grace

 

[Zinzan]

Yeah he's minnow bashed Zimbabwe, I'm well aware because it resulted in that infamous Howsie post saying Kohli sucks because he doesn't average 50 when Kane averaged 50 because of the Zimbabwe series

But Kane's got a good record overall, I really like having 4 good bats going toe to toe. We're in for a good era.

I'm honestly not sure why you give KW a pass here? If any of the other 3 averaged under 40 against the top 5 sides with a decent sample, you can bet it would be held against them, but for some reason because Kane plays a nice back-foot drive and seems a likeable young guy, everyone gives him a pass. He's well & truly fallen off the radar if the last 12 months counts for anything at all.

 

[Blocky]

and Blocky describing Smith's ton vs. Lanka as meaningless proves this I think

A game Sri Lanka won by 163 runs...... where the two Marsh boys also got runs, in a game he went COMPLETELY missing in the final innings while Warner was the only one to fight.

It was the very definition of meaningless.

 

[Spark]

There is no situation in which a 1st innings top order ton is meaningless, unless you just don't count some Test matches.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Statistically, Smith is obviously the best player (with Voges) in the last 36 months.

I'm assessing based on their actual technique, ability to score runs when it matters and how they look against quality bowling. Smith has looked pretty damn average against quality bowling in helpful conditions. Root on the other hand has been one of the only players in the world who does it when it matters.

2 of 3 criteria being at best highly subjective and at worst completely irrelevant.

The other also somewhat subjective and being misrepresented badly ITT

 

[Blocky]

I'm honestly not sure why you give KW a pass here? If any of the other 3 averaged under 40 against the top 5 sides with a decent sample, you can bet it would be held against them, but for some reason because Kane plays a nice back-foot drive and seems a likeable young guy, everyone gives him a pass. He's well & truly fallen off the radar if the last 12 months counts for anything at all.

Williamson's average is more impacted by the fact that he gets himself out too softly when he's set and started, he's the worst amongst all of those being mentioned for turning 20s and 30s into big scores, but he's one of the most consistent in getting to those twenties and thirties. I don't think he's as good as people make him out to be, but I'd rate him more likely to score runs against a rampant English bowling attack in seaming/swinging conditions.

 

[Blocky]

2 of 3 criteria being at best highly subjective and at worst completely irrelevant.

The other also somewhat subjective and being misrepresented badly ITT

It's not subjective to call India away from India a **** bowling attack, or West Indies a **** bowling attack where-ever. That's basic reality.

Give Williamson five tests against India and the West Indies in Australia and watch his average climb. Give Root five tests and watch him bat like Bradman.

 

[Spark]

Williamson's average is more impacted by the fact that he gets himself out too softly when he's set and started, he's the worst amongst all of those being mentioned for turning 20s and 30s into big scores, but he's one of the most consistent in getting to those twenties and thirties. I don't think he's as good as people make him out to be, but I'd rate him more likely to score runs against a rampant English bowling attack in seaming/swinging conditions.

No literally this entire post actually describes Joe Root.

 

[TheJediBrah]

A game Sri Lanka won by 163 runs...... where the two Marsh boys also got runs, in a game he went COMPLETELY missing in the final innings while Warner was the only one to fight.

It was the very definition of meaningless.

Oh so it's meaningful if your side wins the match?

In that case Smith averages 80 with 11 hundreds in Tests his side has won.

 

[Blocky]

Oh so it's meaningful if your side wins the match?

In that case Smith averages 80 with 11 hundreds in Tests his side has won.

And his side has the worst win/loss record of any Australian team, go figure.

 

[Spark]

What is this argument, honestly

How does Steve Smith's batting result in Lyon not being able to bowl the right line/speed? How does Joe Root's batting have anything to do with England's general batting against spin? Or KW's batting have anything to do with how Southee and Boult bowl?

Bizarre.

 

[Blocky]

If Smith was as good as he's made out to be, considering he's also got Starc, Haze and co as a bowling attack, and Lyon who whilst being utterly ****, has a knack of taking fourth innings wickets when it looks like no one else would, his side would have the record that Ponting/Waugh/Border's teams had.

Name a tough series that the Smith generation has won,