Pak pacers used to tamper with the ball: Abdul Qadir

[luckyeddie]

these examples dont make is right....i would still question the greatness of anyone who was found to be messing with the state of the ball.

As far as I am concerned, ball tampering won pakistan a World Cup.

You are a little naive on this matter. Ball-tampering has been going on for more than a century - and it will still be going on in another hundred years.

 

[Swervy]

You are a little naive on this matter. Ball-tampering has been going on for more than a century - and it will still be going on in another hundred years.

still doesnt get around the fact that most bowlers DON'T mess with the ball...and also that it is against the laws (and the spirit) of the game.

If the laws are changed to allow tampering with the ball, then fair enough.

I dont know whether I am being naive...and if I am, I am quite saddened by the fact that it now appears to be acceptable to cheat (and that is what it is).

I have played cricket (from under 10's to now) for 23 years..in that time I have honestly never picked the seam or scatched at the ball...and I have only known one person and suspected one other of doing so. I dont see how the actions of a few can justify this kind of few.

In my opinion, if you have been caught altering the state of the ball, you should be banned for a fair amount of time, no questions asked.

Godofcricket,I support Australia,my team have had their fair share of success, it isnt a case of sour grapes. I want the game to be played in a fair manner. In my mind, there was something well dodgy about the bowling in that World Cup...and in fact by the Pakistan bowlers in most games around that time...and it seems damned strange to me that the amount of reverse swing generated after all of the media attention seemed to diminish,and no bowler since has come close to reversing the ball that far and so out of the blue.

To me , ball tampering is as much cheating as match fixing......and as I say, just coz it has happened in the past, doesnt make it right

 

[luckyeddie]

still doesnt get around the fact that most bowlers DON'T mess with the ball...and also that it is against the laws (and the spirit) of the game.

If the laws are changed to allow tampering with the ball, then fair enough.

I dont know whether I am being naive...and if I am, I am quite saddened by the fact that it now appears to be acceptable to cheat (and that is what it is).

(rest snipped)

I tend to agree that nowadays, certainly at the highest level, there are too many cameras around. Even so, any number get picked up acting 'suspiciously' now and again.

A few have gone into print advocating 'legal' tampering - throw the fielding captain a ball, say 'there you go. Don't come back to me until it's 80 overs old'. It could work - provided no 'foreign substances' except sweat, spit and fingernails are permitted, of course.

I never said that it was 'acceptable' to cheat - just that there WAS a lot of it about.

 

[marc71178]

Well your comments sound like that of a looser[/url]

Except his side never lost that World Cup...

 

[maxpower]

thanks raj123 for providing links for the expert's opinion on ball tampering. However its just something I feel was being done throughout years, I believe it happened because they could get away with, as simple as that. Not just pak bowlers but most fast bowlers in the name of cleaning and taking care of the ball tired to change the ball to their advantage when they could. its not right but it happend.

 

[luckyeddie]

That slide show is quite superb - and it just demonstrates how much the game has changed (not). Personally, I loved the bit about Brian Statham being able to lift the seam with the ball held in just one hand. The sign of a truly great, er, something.

 

[Salamuddin]

no..there was infact a much more specific implication by Imran that Botham may have tampered with the ball.

And hey...Pakistan isnt particularly a place I really want to go to either...nothing to do with race or anything.

Botham had a particularly bad time of it in Pakistan, he got injured etc...and once he actually bit into a boiled egg, and discovered he had eaten half a unhatched chick..so I guess fair do's to him if he didnt particualrly like the place.

I would say one thing Botham isnt is racist

This has completely changed the course of the topic.....there is much to suggest that these 'great' bowlers were cheats.

What precisely is there to suggest that the Pakistani bowlers were cheats ?
The allegation of one of their own players ? That's not exactly concrete proof now is it ?

There's absolutely no evidence whatsoever to suggest that the Pakistanis indulged in ball tampering.

 

[Lions81]

What precisely is there to suggest that the Pakistani bowlers were cheats ?
The allegation of one of their own players ? That's not exactly concrete proof now is it ?

There's absolutely no evidence whatsoever to suggest that the Pakistanis indulged in ball tampering.

I'd say one of the players on the team saying his teammates cheated is pretty good evidence.

 

[Salamuddin]

I'd say one of the players on the team saying his teammates cheated is pretty good evidence.

There is such a thing as the other side of the story....
What's there to say Qadir is speaking the truth ?

 

[Lions81]

There is such a thing as the other side of the story....
What's there to say Qadir is speaking the truth ?

What's there to say he's lying? Even Imran Khan has admitted to tampering with the ball. Despite that he only admitted to "doing it once", he nevertheless did it more than the zero times required to give him some blanket immunity from ball-tampering allegations. Qadir seems to have a reputation of being quiet and not wanting to draw attention to himself, so I can't see why he would make up this story, as it has done nothing but put him in the spotlight. Maybe that's what he wants, despite his reputation, but there are other ways to get it than selling out your teammmates. Qadir has completely burned his relations with all of his former teammates. Do you think he would do this on a whim?

 

[Salamuddin]

What's there to say he's lying? Even Imran Khan has admitted to tampering with the ball. Despite that he only admitted to "doing it once", he nevertheless did it more than the zero times required to give him some blanket immunity from ball-tampering allegations. Qadir seems to have a reputation of being quiet and not wanting to draw attention to himself, so I can't see why he would make up this story, as it has done nothing but put him in the spotlight. Maybe that's what he wants, despite his reputation, but there are other ways to get it than selling out your teammmates. Qadir has completely burned his relations with all of his former teammates. Do you think he would do this on a whim?

Just because there is no apparent motive to you does not mean that what Qadir is saying is the truth.

His allegations are just that - allegations. It is NOT evidence.

 

[Lions81]

Just because there is no apparent motive to you does not mean that what Qadir is saying is the truth.

His allegations are just that - allegations. It is NOT evidence.

Yes, they are allegations and not evidence. So what? I'm not a judge ready to throw them in jail. The burden of proof is not as high as in a court case. If this were a court case, then Qadir would have to swear to what he said, and then it would indeed be evidence, as an eyewitness account. All I have to believe is that it was more likely than not that the alleged events occurred, and I do believe that the Pakistani bowlers more likely that not tampered with the ball, and this is based on Qadir's statements as well as Imran Khan's own statements admitting to doing it.

 

[luckyeddie]

Reality check - they all did - and if the cameras weren't on them now, they still would.

 

[marc71178]

What precisely is there to suggest that the Pakistani bowlers were cheats ?
The allegation of one of their own players ? That's not exactly concrete proof now is it ?

There's absolutely no evidence whatsoever to suggest that the Pakistanis indulged in ball tampering.

Erm, wasn't it 1992 at Lords?

 

[warrioryohannan]

I'd say one of the players on the team saying his teammates cheated is pretty good evidence.

Prabharkar's accusations against Kapil dev comes to mind.

 

[yohanna]

no..there was infact a much more specific implication by Imran that Botham may have tampered with the ball.

And hey...Pakistan isnt particularly a place I really want to go to either...nothing to do with race or anything.

Botham had a particularly bad time of it in Pakistan, he got injured etc...and once he actually bit into a boiled egg, and discovered he had eaten half a unhatched chick..so I guess fair do's to him if he didnt particualrly like the place.

I would say one thing Botham isnt is racist

.

Nobody is asking you to go to Pak, but you don't have to be so vocal about it.Botham insulted Pakistan in worst possible manner, and only a sick person would even think of justifying Botham's remark.

 

[yohanna]

these examples dont make is right....i would still question the greatness of anyone who was found to be messing with the state of the ball.

As far as I am concerned, ball tampering won pakistan a World Cup.

That is stupid, its like saying "taking banned drugs helped Aus win the World cup"

 

[Choora]

Well Qadir has claimed that whatever Pak pacers used to do wasn't anything "illegal" and he has totally different views on ball tampering but he wasn't allowed to express his views on TV.

 

[yohanna]

Something interesting about Qadir (not related to this topic though). Qadir had named his first son after Imran Khan , the name being "imran Qadir".However after Imran dropped Qadir from the team and replaced him by Mushtaq Ahmad, Qadir changed his son's name to Salman Qadir!!

 

[Choora]

I would say one thing Botham isnt is racist

.

How about this, whether he was racist or not he was a ***ist!!


Remember Bothom said that Pak team is like 11 women who keeps fighting all the time.Fair enough on Pak players who actually have a poor record but why bring women into it?