Overrated by CW XI and Underrated by CW XI

[Johan]

Could never call Kallis overrated unless Tendulkar - Zaheer comparison kicks in

Kallis had spicy home pitches and also is successful in the dusty sub continent tracks... consistency is unparalleled by none other than Tendulkar maybe. Also till 2003 at his peak with the ball averaged 29 and also ranked no.6 at best. One of the finest slip fielders ever who rarely drops any catch. 23 Man of the Matches and 9 Man of the Series awards definitely makes him one of the best.

Although not in this list felt that Bert Ironmonger is the most underrated. Averages 17.97 in the flatest era of Test Cricket...WPM 5.28 that too playing alongside Grimmett and O'Rielly and achieveing all these as a finger spinner without the spinning finger.

There is one who would mention that unironically

 

[Cricket Bliss]

There is one who would mention that unironically

It's the Zaheer comparison which makes him overrated, not the Tendulkar one. Kallis has second most 100s to Tendulkar...3rd leading run scorer ... averages higher than Tendulkar... I don't mind that comparison although Tendulkar the better more evident
But Zaheer comparison is were it goes over the limit... but one thing I felt which rarely gets mentioned is that Kallis was 3rd/4th seamer who generally bowls lower the order...bowling lower the order is when bowling becomes difficult.

 

[kyear2]

Even you?

But tbh I was shocked @Johan didn’t select Gooch

Of course not, Barry 3 and Sunny 4. 5th is possible but other contenders as well.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Of course not, Barry 3 and Sunny 4. 5th is possible but other contenders as well.

Who are the other contenders?

 

[kyear2]

Could never call Kallis overrated unless Tendulkar - Zaheer comparison kicks in

Kallis had spicy home pitches and also is successful in the dusty sub continent tracks... consistency is unparalleled by none other than Tendulkar maybe. Also till 2003 at his peak with the ball averaged 29 and also ranked no.6 at best. One of the finest slip fielders ever who rarely drops any catch. 23 Man of the Matches and 9 Man of the Series awards definitely makes him one of the best.

Although not in this list felt that Bert Ironmonger is the most underrated. Averages 17.97 in the flatest era of Test Cricket...WPM 5.28 that too playing alongside Grimmett and O'Rielly and achieveing all these as a finger spinner without the spinning finger.

Kallis is probably underated at this point on CW.

Again, the perfect cricketer. He bats in the (modern) key position in the line up, and fills the two most important auxiliary roles in the game. And most importantly, two at an ATG level and one as the 2nd best to have done it.

 

[Johan]

Of course not, Barry 3 and Sunny 4. 5th is possible but other contenders as well.

Sutcliffe vs Sunny is extremely multi layered with arguments going both ways.

 

[kyear2]

I enjoy the irony of referring to Kallis as a perfect cricketer as a defence against him being labelled overrated.

Didn't say best, didn't even say perfect batsman, because he wasn't.

But he played the perfect role.

And if you thought up the the most valuable combination of skills, matched with production and value of position for a top order batsman, it's him.

Seriously, he batted primarily at 3 or 4, averaging over 60 at no. 4, was a top 3 2nd slip fielder during his era, and quite frankly for the time I've been watching cricket, and finally as a bowler consistently came on at either 1st or 2nd change, being easily the 2nd best batting all rounder ever.

What possibly more could he have done?

Yes, Sachin was the better batsman, Garry the better cricketer (in all 3 facets), but the roles Kallis played, in the positions he performed and the balance they achieved with him (where the WI failed with Garry), beings me to that point.

 

[kyear2]

Sutcliffe vs Sunny is extremely multi layered with arguments going both ways.

What are the arguments for a Sutcliffe?

 

[Johan]

What are the arguments for a Sutcliffe?

clearly a superior player of spin, much higher output on consistent basis (51 avg vs 60 avg) and better on spicy/bad wickets, almost averaging as high as Hutton and much higher than anyone bar Hobbs/Bradman in low scoring games.

Sunny's argument is simply a far more proven/better player of pace and facing a better set of bowlers consistently, and was a better strokemaker and was more dominant when the conditions suited him.

I've Sunny at 10 and Herbert at 11 or 12.

 

[Coronis]

Although not in this list felt that Bert Ironmonger is the most underrated. Averages 17.97 in the flatest era of Test Cricket...WPM 5.28 that too playing alongside Grimmett and O'Rielly and achieveing all these as a finger spinner without the spinning finger.

Counterpoints… 14 test career…. only ever played at home, very much feasted on SA and Windies, never played a full test series against any opponent. Averages 33.85 against England with 0 5’fers, with a (great) economy of 1.74 and a SR of 116.4, WPM of 3.5.

 

[ankitj]

One man's overrated is another man's underrated

 

[Johan]

I'm switching Laker from overrated to underrated.