*Official* South Africa in New Zealand

[Neil Pickup]

Renamed - I'll top it once SA get on the the plane.

 

[Craig]

Thank you Neil

 

[BlackCap_Fan]

*gasp* my first topped topic! *breath deep...breath deep...*

just kidding.

New Zealand will not be pushovers.With fleming getting a run a second at the moment,Cairns at his big-hitting batting best (well maybe not best,but hes doing great)and if tuffer can bowl like his good line and length self,south africe have quite A hurdle to get over.

 

[Pratters]

Unless it has been done, I think we should turn this into the Offical thread. Since it starts in a week in a half or so time.

Pratyush is that ODIs or Tests?

Ashwell Prince? What on earth has he done to get into the South African team?

The squad is for ODIs. Players like McKenzie will join in for the tests (the names mentioned below on the post)

 

[anzac]

Funny that Anzac, the selectors are thinking exactly opposite to you and wants to play Astle in ODIs only to reach his dream of playing in another World Cup.

doesn't surprise me in the slightest..........

I place more importance upon Test than ODIs, and I believe we have as many issues re the batting lineup in Tests as we do in ODIs....

at least in ODIs we have H Marshall as a new addition in the batting lineup to play the role to build partnerships, whereas in Tests we are lacking after Fleming............hence I would rather see Astle in all the Tests at the expense of some of the ODIs.......

 

[Mingster]

Either way in a year or two I don't think we will miss Astle that much.

If Papps can translate that sort of SS form into the Internationals, we should be sweet there.

We always have the option of pushing Marshall down one to allow for either a Fulton or Taylor.

 

[Kent]

don't get me wrong - I rate Astle as our best batsman after Fleming, but I have a bad feeling about this injury....I just have a sence of deja vu........

Nathan Astle's participation in this month's one-day cricket series against South Africa has been plunged into doubt after new knee problems emerged.

New Zealand's highest one-day international runscorer will undergo a scan today or tomorrow after experiencing recent discomfort in his right knee, the New Zealand Herald reported today.

Up until yesterday the right had been the least-troublesome of the two knees, with patella tendon problems in his left knee sidelining him from international cricket since the India test series in October.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,2803560a10393,00.html

It's deja vu alright, or deja voodoo seeing it's now his other leg. They used to have people like Anzac burned or drowned, just to be sure! :P

it would be interesting to see if the selectors would play both Martin & Vettori with both being LAO - they usually like to have a contrast in spin attacks..........even tho' Martin has been the form spin bowler this domestic season........

I don't see why not. It's not like they're going cold on Cairns even though at best he'll only provide another RMF option, so why is spin bowling any different? Perhaps drop Cairns for the tests, play Martin as your spinner and Vettori as your second all-rounder. If anything that side would have more balance than AR's as close in style as Cairns and Oram.

Bruce Martin looks like a different kind of guy than Vettori to me; there's a bit more of Warne in his character. I strongly doubt he'll be sulking if someone like Gibbs gets after him, so I reckon he could be worth a punt at some stage.

It's funny how the cricket-following public and media works sometimes. Often you'll hear "drop Vincent!" (public enemy #2) or "drop McMillan!" (public enemy #1). Sometimes they don't even know the alternatives, but if they are aware of the likes of Papps and Fulton they become even more vociferous.

Then you have a bowler like Martin, who from what I've seen has consistently outbowled Vettori this season. Good turn, nice drift, an arm-ball that actually works and is getting LB's through deception...but none of this is ever really mentioned. The only one who isn't saying "Vettori first, daylight second" is Bracewell himself, who said he was pleasantly surprised by the quality of our spin bowling stocks.

As a PR move, perhaps Vincent should try some spectacles? :saint:

 

[marc71178]

Cairns at his big-hitting batting best (well maybe not best,but hes doing great)

You are joking, right?!

 

[Mingster]

You are joking, right?!

He's in good form in the State Shield.

Got a quick 50 a few games back.

 

[anzac]

Either way in a year or two I don't think we will miss Astle that much.

If Papps can translate that sort of SS form into the Internationals, we should be sweet there.

We always have the option of pushing Marshall down one to allow for either a Fulton or Taylor.

more so in Tests than in ODIs at the moment - as I said I believe there are problems with both batting & bowling lineups regarding the balance & roles to be played........

Batting = openers for both Tests & ODIs, middle order options are short esp in Tests, Test batting should be 6 batsmen IMO - currently we select 5 & have weakness at Top & Lower orders;

Bowling = lack of variety in seam attack, lack of clear seam options, lack of clear 2nd spin option behind Vettori, 1 x dodgy allrounder struggling with the ball, lack of slow / medium options, lack of clear 'death' bowling options;

Marshall has given the selectors some breathing space in the ODI batting lineup, however this does nothing for the Test lineup.

I'd like to see the following players looked at with a view to being groomed into one or other of the squads - both for some.......& some sooner rather than latter - even during this RSA series.....

Papps, McIntosh, Fulton, How, Stewart
Nichol, Taylor, Broom, Ryder
B Martin, Franklin, Scott, Gillespie, Wilson, C Martin,
N McCullum,

Basically these to me have been the form local players of the domestic season, along with the likes of Vincent, Sinclair, B Walker, M Walker - all of whom I still think have something to offer - again some more than others.

These are primarily the players I would have wanted to see in a trial situation with a progression into 'A' team for some & squad members for others - IMO everyone else such as Harris & Nevin are basically known to the selectors, along with the current Internationals.

I'm not saying that these guys deserve to be in the squads ahead of the incumbants - just that they deserve a look so far as alternatives / options go & competition for places......I know that most are aged early to mid 20's, but look at the ages in the current IND & PAK squads! Even Australia has tried / introduced more batting & bowling options than NZ!

 

[anzac]

[B
It's deja vu alright, or deja voodoo seeing it's now his other leg. They used to have people like Anzac burned or drowned, just to be sure! :P

[/B]

:saint:


ooops!!! I guess we can forget about him until the England tour then:saint:


I'd love to see B Martin get a run in the side but as I said I don't know if they'll drop Vettori & I don't know if they'll go for 2 spin bowlers of the same style, particularly on NZ pitches.........

I'm afraid I'm one of those who has called for the dropping of both Vincent & McMillan (as well as Cairns). With Vincent I don't see him as an opener in either squad, but I do consider him for an anchor type role in the middle orders of each, until / unless other options are tried / found.

So far as McMillan goes I've already said that I believe there is a weakness in the NZ batting with both him & Styris batting at 4 & 5 as they are like Cairns & Oram being similar, and that McMillan has been inconsistant so far as his application seems to be.........

 

[southern man]

I think Ross taylor should definetley get ago.

 

[anzac]

He's in good form in the State Shield.

Got a quick 50 a few games back.

yeah but I'm not convinced on that score either - remember he was supposedly batting well enough to be selected as a specialist in the WC but that came to nothing........

IMO Cairns will continue to be a risky selection until his bowling is effective - until that time I would not have him in my squads for either Tests or ODIs...........

 

[anzac]

I think Ross taylor should definetley get ago.

well he's one that I'd look at but not ahead of the likes of Papps or Fulton who have been more consistant across both domestic comps this season........

most of the players I named are in their early 20s and have not played 2 dozen F/C matches yet sothey are still raw, but worth developing now rather than earmarking for later IMO.....

didn't you just have a post re N McCullum - I caught a glimpse when I posted my last but I can't find it now - something about him being a confidence player????

was keen to have a read 'from the horses mouth' so to speak.....

 

[BlackCap_Fan]

You are joking, right?!

no,because I was under the impression that an average of over 50 was good.

Harris is in good form.no,great form.

Fulton,surely he has to be in tests? didn't he make 325 in a four day match?

Hes got great promise.2 big guys in our team!

edit:wait,fulton got 301*.

 

[southern man]

Yea that Nathan McCullum post I posted that and then relised that, I posted something that was really non relavant to South Africa in new zealand and that it was just me bitching and moaning about some selections for the North south match.

But about Nathan McCullum it would be good if he could really get his confidence up, he is quite a dangerous bowler and his batting can get nearly up to the level of his brothers.
He is also a fantastic fielder.

With Taylor Why do you need to perform in the 4 day game to get a go in one dayers?

 

[Mingster]

Its too early for Taylor.

Like Tim said before, he's only got one good score against a proven bowling attack.

You can't select him on his first season.

remeber Butler, McCullum...

Anzac, we do play 6 batsmen in Tests before Cairns this summer.

We haveplenty of depth in teh middle order in Fulton and Styris, McMillan, Astle, VINCENT. He needs time in the middle order not at the top.

 

[Token]

3 News showed that Astle had his knee cleared of any problems and scored a brisk 30 in an un-official game for Canterbury which they were using for preparation for the State Shield final as the team hasn't played for 1-2 weeks. He was also running freely between the wickets and is a starter for the Canterbury vs CD game, looks certain to be back in black come 13th Feb.

 

[anzac]

Yea that Nathan McCullum post I posted that and then relised that, I posted something that was really non relavant to South Africa in new zealand and that it was just me bitching and moaning about some selections for the North south match.

But about Nathan McCullum it would be good if he could really get his confidence up, he is quite a dangerous bowler and his batting can get nearly up to the level of his brothers.
He is also a fantastic fielder.

With Taylor Why do you need to perform in the 4 day game to get a go in one dayers?

I know how you feel re the Nth v Sth selections..........

If he kicks on (so far as consistency goes) I think Nathan could be a good off spin option to replace Wiseman...........

With Taylor it has nothing to do with Championship v Shield - rather than Papps & Fulton have been consistant scorers in both & offer more flexibility IMO.......

plus Taylor is young etc & falls into the same group as Nichol, Ryder, Broom etc - early 20s with a lot of promise & should be developed now & not just earmarked for 3 years down the track........

 

[anzac]

Anzac, we do play 6 batsmen in Tests before Cairns this summer.

We haveplenty of depth in teh middle order in Fulton and Styris, McMillan, Astle, VINCENT. He needs time in the middle order not at the top.

I think I said currently - refering to the PAK series......

we had 6 when Astle was available & Cairns not..........I'm concerned that if Astle is available then we will drop a batsman for him & still retain Cairns, or even if Astle is out then Cairns will still play at No6.......

we have good prospects for the batting but IMO they remain as prospects only until they are tried out - accordingly our current options are limited to the likes of Jones, Vincent, Sinclair & Horne being those batsman last used in Tests.

Jones has just replaced Vincent in the opening position, Vincent has yet to be tried lower in the order & is currently injured, Sinclair is still scoring runs in domestic cricket but failed in the ODI series in PAK (which makes his selection as probable opener for Nth a joke!), and Horne seems to be past his use by date with the selectors. Suddenly the cupboard looks bare!!!

IMO the best way to create competition for places is to have 2 - 3 batsmen tried out at international level & capable of stepping in & doing the job. This would require squad selections and playing time on Tour / Invitation matches against international opposition - not just based upon domestic form alone.........

I'd stack the 'A' side with the guys I mentioned earlier to give them experience, looking to introduce a couple during the Test series v RSA & possible squad selection for England...