*Official* New Zealand in India 2010

[Blocky]

Taylor managing to get out once more to his slog sweep shot - yes, he hit a six with it but jesus christ, is it too much to ask a cricketer with several seasons of international cricket behind them to put away a shot when it gets him out so many times?

For mine, Franklin needs to be in this side to shore up the batting and offer some capable bowling. I'm also wondering why Southee is rested, the guy is going to play 120-140 test matches, might as well leave him in there and get him as much experience as possible.

 

[Athlai]

It was a powerplay and we needed runs. Rubbish call.

120-140 Test matches?

 

[Blocky]

It was a powerplay and we needed runs. Rubbish call.

120-140 Test matches?

I've got no problems with it being a powerplay and him playing aggressive cricket. The point I'm making is whenever Taylor plays aggressive cricket, he inevitably plays that shot and you know it's a matter of when, not if, that he gets out doing it.

For a guy who can absolutely murder the ball on the offside, plays the straight drive and lofted drives well and can pull spinners along the ground with ease, it's a stupid move to constantly go to that one shot, especially when his average of getting out with it is so bad.

As for Southee - he's already played 11 test matches and is only 21. Let's say he averages 10 tests a year (4 series) - barring incredible injury, which so far he's not been prone to having or a serious increase in the bowling stocks in NZ, he represents a guy who will be on the fringe or likely be selected for the majority of the next decade, potentially 15 years.

It's the same as Michael Clarke when he was younger, why drop him? You know he's going to play a tonne of matches for you.

 

[Athlai]

Daniel Vettori started younger and is unlikely to get 140.

 

[Blocky]

Daniel Vettori started younger and is unlikely to get 140.

Vettori has had chronic back problems and a period in NZ cricket where they haven't played as many tests. It's been identified by NZ Cricket that they need to play more tests and I believe they're targeting 12-15 tests per year after the World Cup.

And I still say Vettori gets 150 tests. He's 31, he'll play til 36-38 - 10 tests a year will get him there.

 

[Bahnz]

Vettori has had chronic back problems and a period in NZ cricket where they haven't played as many tests. It's been identified by NZ Cricket that they need to play more tests and I believe they're targeting 12-15 tests per year after the World Cup.

And I still say Vettori gets 150 tests. He's 31, he'll play til 36-38 - 10 tests a year will get him there.

Really not sure how much longer Vettori will play after he reaches about 33. Afterall, he's apparently giving up the captaincy next year, and he'll be really keen to earn some mega bucks from the IPL before he retires.

As for 10 tests a year, that earns a big

We played 5 tests this year and over the six year period from 2006 to 2011, we averaged about 7 tests a year. I'd say the most Vettori could hope to expect much more than that over the next few years.

 

[NZTailender]

Taylor managing to get out once more to his slog sweep shot - yes, he hit a six with it but jesus christ, is it too much to ask a cricketer with several seasons of international cricket behind them to put away a shot when it gets him out so many times?

IIRC he didn't get out to that shot. Don't see why he can' keep playing it as long as he doesn't over do it.

Would've thought if there was any criticism to be had it would be aimed at one of plenty failed innings in the match by NZ.

 

[Jono]

Nah he got out to that shot. Agree with you anyway though.

 

[Blaze 18]

Taylor managing to get out once more to his slog sweep shot - yes, he hit a six with it but jesus christ, is it too much to ask a cricketer with several seasons of international cricket behind them to put away a shot when it gets him out so many times?

But he also hit all his sixes with that shot, didn't he ?

 

[_Ed_]

Nah he got out to that shot.

The ball after hitting a six with it. I think that's what annoyed me the most about it.

 

[Blocky]

Had Taylor got to 80-100 in that innings, NZ won.

He never looked in trouble out there and like most of his one day innings, he had already gone to the well so to speak by hitting a six with the slog sweep. Ask yourself, an average of 12 for a guy like Taylor playing that shot, why would you play it?

Take Steve Waugh, a guy who liked winning more than hitting sixes, he took the hook and pull out of his game because he considered them too much risk for reward. Taylor needs to do the same with that stupid shot, because what's more - his premeditation to play it means he puts himself in a position where he can't play any other shot to the ball. It's just plain stupid cricket.

 

[Blocky]

ps - chasing a score of 270 doesn't require you to hit sixes if you can get consistent twos, threes and fours.

 

[Flem274*]

The slog sweep is his go to shot in ODIs, and more often than not in works.

Can't remember the last time he played it in a test, thankfully.

 

[Blocky]

The slog sweep is his go to shot in ODIs, and more often than not in works.

Can't remember the last time he played it in a test, thankfully.

Even if it works 2 or 3 times before he gets out (it's generally working once or twice for him before he skies one or hits it right down the throat) - you've got to ask if he's happy with a shot that has an average of 12-18.

I wouldn't be.

 

[Blakey]

He seems to have so much talent yet, he hasn't developed another tactic to score runs NOT with the slog sweep to leg side. Sure he cuts nicely, but when he wants a six he'll drop to one knee and hoick it to the leg side. I think he is a better batsman that 37 - there seems stuff all pressure on him from within NZ to take his spot - really he is just coasting along.

 

[Blocky]

He hit a very decent pull/flick when it was dropped short to the vacant fine leg boundary for six. I've seen him loft spinners for six straight over there head and he's quite powerful on the off side.

The problem with the slog sweep is that he's walking across his stumps, changing his grip on the bat and modifying his back lift which gives him very few bail out options. I wish Cricinfo had stats on what shot the guy got out too, it wouldn't be pretty reading for the slog sweep.

 

[Mike5181]

I think thats why Taylor will never be a world class batsmen. He is a good batsmen but nothing special, people like Ryder and potentially Williamson, McCullum are already overtaking him as the best batsmen we have for the future. Taylor doesn't have the brains, mentality to be as successful as he could be.

Anyway for the next ODI my ideal team would be

1. McCullum 2.How 3.Guptill 4.Williamson 5.Taylor 6.Styris 7.Franklin 8.Vettori 9.Mills 10.Southee 11.Mckay

If Ryder was there he would replace How. I put Williamson at 4 because he scores slower than the others in the earlier stages and needs time at the crease, the rest can bat around him if he gets going.

 

[Flem274*]

Ross Taylor doesn't have the brains or the mentality to be world class, despite carrying our top order for the past two years?

Barring his debut series, the Bangladesh tour and the West Indies tour to NZ, he's never let us down.

He averages 45 against Australia, 50 against England, 45 against India, 60 against Pakistan and 39 vs Sri Lanka. Those are pretty decent numbers for a batsman who has only played 28 tests in a line up that until this Indian tour delighted in collapsing around his ears.

What he does need to work on is he is an under the radar hometown bully, averaging 51 at home and only 31 away.

He's not a world class batsman yet, but he will get there imo. His best years are ahead of him. To suggest McCullum is a better batsman than him is just plain wrong imo.

EDIT: In ODIs though he is no more than decent, I'll give you that. He will probably do a lot better but I couldn't care less as long as he guns it in tests.

 

[Mike5181]

I said McCullum is potentially a better batsmen than Taylor...If he continues on with the mentality he had in the Indian test series his numbers will look a lot better. His average has already climbed to 37 this year. I still rate Taylor > McCullum but not as much as before.
Taylor looks a prime lbw candidate at times, his hand-eye saves him but can he do that when hes a bit older in his 30s? Anyway, Ryder has proved himself to probably be our best batsmen in tests all be it a short career so far.

 

[Flem274*]

Taylor is vulnerable early on to the lbw or wafts through the covers, but once set his footwork is pretty good imo. This Indian series has been the exception rather than the norm in his career so far and tbf he did get a few good deliveries his way, and was sawn off in the last dig.