**Official** New Zealand in Australia Thread

[Kent]

first of all, i havent seen marshall bat, and don't profess to be any expert on him at all. however, i hear that he has not made a first class century.

what we've seen recently is that you need big hundreds to beat australia (or a dodgy pitch, but thats for another thread) - laxman, dravid, the whole bloody indian team in australia last year, and even lou vincent over here last time with his century at the WACA where NZ had the wood over aus at perth, our fave hunting ground, IIRC - and a guy who has not made a century at first class level surely, no matter how talented, is not the guy to pick in the team.

To be honest, I've very rarely seen Marshall play poorly on a decent-paced track. The thing that seems to kill him at domestic level in NZ is how slow the bowlers and the pitches are - a prime example being today against BAN where he popped up the softest of catches to cover, once again through his shot too early. Ask him to ramp a Shoaib thunderbolt over the slips though, and he seems like he could do it all day.

I looked through his scorecards once and found that about 40% of his dismissals were to domestic spinners, and if you know anything about how FC cricket is dominated by medium-pacers in NZ that's a pretty alarming stat.

 

[anzac]

bloody horses for bloody cources....................

 

[anzac]

just to stirr the pot again..............

IMO Astle has failed in BAN with the bat & has been out performed by Sinclair & to a lesser extent Marshall.............

in 6 innings in ENG he got 1 50 in his comeback Test series to average 23, now in BAN he's scored a total of 50 runs in 2 Test innings;
in ODIs he got 2x50 in the Natwest Series and apart from the 145* v USA in the ICC Series he's not got a score above 30 since...........

could this mean we look at potential changes to the sides re his inclusion or position.............eg
TEST = Richardson, Sinclair, Fleming, Styris, Marshall? in a 5-5 split with McCullum at #6??????
ODIs = Fleming, Sinclair, Marshall, Styris, Astle, McCullum, Oram, Vettori.......

or does he get until the 4th series Home v SRL to perform??????

 

[Kent]

"We'll always find room for Nathan Astle" - Fleming talking about his former flatmate and close friend before the English series.

Even Bracewell couldn't get his favourite little trooper Marshall past Fleming's veto, so I'd say Astle pretty much stays until either he or Fleming retires.

 

[anzac]

Marshall wasn't part of the Test squad on that Tour - even when the replacements were called up...............& they both played in the ODIs as Papps missed out.............so there was no competition for places.........

IMO Astle is still safe re ODI selection (Harris & McMillan have more to worry about), but perhaps not as Opener to partner Fleming...........there is a possibility of Harris / Macca making way for Astle to drop down the order & Sinclair to partner Fleming.............particularly if they go ahead with Sinclair to Open in the Tests then the same logic can apply to ODIs - esp if he's already been out performing Astle when they've been batting together........

Test selection could be a different story - I think he'd be favorite to start atm in a 5-5 split, but if he fails in Brisbane a lot could depend on how many batsmen they take to Adelaide..........and how much the pitch dries out having watched the ball swing all day today in the Cup OD game between SA & QLD.........

likewise I also think NZL missed a trick by only debuting Marshall in BAN - IMO Fulton should have got more than just the 1 start in the ODIs...............we may have a lot of batsmen queing up in the middle order, but only a few have recent intnl experience which hampers your choices.........

 

[Kent]

Marshall wasn't part of the Test squad on that Tour - even when the replacements were called up.......

Yeah - what I meant was that Fleming's comment still held true for the 1st BAN test in the end, despite Bracewell's talk about Marshall perhaps having an edge.

Ultimately I just can't see Fleming skippering a NZ side that omits Astle. IMO Bracewell will have to pull rank on Fleming to ever do it.

 

[Mingster]

could it be the fact that marshall averages 22 in fc cricket, never got a century. he looks like he may be one of those players that have a better test career than fc but still picking him on those stats are a big risk.

So far it has worked. If it proves otherwise, then drop him for Fulton etc. But we should continue with him in the Aussie Tests.

But my point is - he's only really done it for 2 games in his career - so the weight of performances suggest he will be cannon fodder for the Aussies.

Should we forfeit the Aussie Tour already? I mean, by your logic we will get spanked and there is no point in turning up as all of the Aussie team has better averages than us.

Anzac, I personally don't like the 5-5 split, we need 6 specialist bat.

 

[marc71178]

"We'll always find room for Nathan Astle" - Fleming talking about his former flatmate and close friend before the English series.

That's a fair while ago in Cricketing terms though - I don't think Fleming would be stupid enough to never change that view.

 

[marc71178]

Should we forfeit the Aussie Tour already? I mean, by your logic we will get spanked and there is no point in turning up as all of the Aussie team has better averages than us.

Where have I ever said anything along those lines?

I haven't - but I think defending someone with a record like his on the basis of only 2 games is a tad shortsighted.

 

[Mingster]

I'm defending him that Martin should play ahead of Mills and Butler in the Tests. You don't need much of a record to get past thjoe two.

 

[marc71178]

Yes, but that doesn't mean he's not going to be cannon fodder.

 

[anzac]

Anzac, I personally don't like the 5-5 split, we need 6 specialist bat.

you and me both - I've been on about that being a weakness for yonks.............

 

[anzac]

Yes, but that doesn't mean he's not going to be cannon fodder.

For me it all comes down to how his release & seam position is going in the nets.............he did reasonably well last time out & I think these type of pitches suit him better..........

my main concern is that he has not had any match time in BAN..........

 

[Mingster]

Yup, must be a record for me and you agreeing Anzac. I must get to sleep if this is happening....

It was odd that Martin didn't get any game time at all. But what do you think of Mills as a Test bowler? He generally bowls good lines, and can swing it away from the right-hander. Handy batsman as well. But at this stage I still favour Martin.

 

[Tim]

Im going to reframe from talking NZ up in the lead up to this series, because it always seems to come back & hit me hard.
The bowlers just have to hope it works for them on the day & that the batsmen combine to achieve a reasonable score each innings.

Good luck to them.

 

[age_master]

will be interesting to see the makeup of the aussie side... have heard Warney will play if he passes a fitness test of some sort tomorrow morning

 

[Slats4ever]

i think that Clarke has to be given another go! He's the future of Aussie cricket and Lehmann's only valuable when the other team has a spinner around. Which NZ doesn't really have anyone of great worth...

It'll also be interesting to see the off side field placements implemented by Fleming. Last time he was instrumental in the undoing of Martyn and it'll be interesting to see how he's done his homework on Martyn again.

Last test series Fleming's captaincy alone is what did them. I for one don't think he can do it again

 

[age_master]

well martyn has become a more rounded player so he wont pin him down as eaily, as for the others i have no idea how NZ could even slow them down

 

[Tim]

Yeah Fleming's captaincy was good in the first 2 tests..but NZ totally out-played Australia in the Perth test.

It really should have been 2-1 to Australia had rain & misfortune not intervened.

 

[Dydl]

Another rain disrupted game which could have changed the result in a series.