Apex Predator
State Vice-Captain
They should have a crack at BD batting for at least 10-15 overs tomorrow. Bangers need at least 350-400 to make a realistic chance for a draw.
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***Official*** Bangladesh in NZ 2021-22
- Thread starter Fuller Pilch
- Start date
And deservedly so. His stats are sorta like that meme of Homer Simpson where his back fat is clipped in bunches at the back, while he looks buff at the front.
Australia (26), England (36), India (32), Pakistan (31), South Africa (11) earns you a big asterix when those 5 are the best five sides in the world.
nzfan
International Vice-Captain
I wouldn't change the order much. Conway will get even more runs at no 4. Young, Latham, KW, Conway, Nicholls, Darryl, Blundell is the right combo. At some point in time or if one of the batter is battling rachin comes in. Finally caught up Blundell and Rachin's inning from last test. Blundell looks mentally out of it. Still have plenty of faith on Rachin. Although runs doesn't show looks a proper test quality bat. Likely hasn't an idea how to bat at no 7 yet. Either he'll have to learn that or wait for one of the batter to lose form if he needs to bat in the middle order. At this point in time all the batting places are taken.
Blundell needs to find form real quick. Cleaver and Cam seem to be in their form of life.
That's fine, as soon as we start putting a astrix beside other players?
Indian batters at home?
Australian bowlers at home against England currently?
Pakistan spinners at home?
New Zealand seam bowlers at home?
nzfan
International Vice-Captain
To be fair to Latham we play more vs SL, Bangladesh and pakistan. I'd be interested to know how many games he's played vs India, Aus, Eng, SA. I guess the sample size will be lot less.
He still has plenty of time to make amends, he's like 29. He'll play for 7 more years if not more. He'll only get better. Don't think he'll be opener forever. A year or two later I can see him in the middle order.
He still has plenty of time to make amends, he's like 29. He'll play for 7 more years if not more. He'll only get better. Don't think he'll be opener forever. A year or two later I can see him in the middle order.
Yes but 6-10 changes and that's even if the rankings even represent a true story. Right now taking wickets against England in England is probably a easier ask than against Bangladesh at home, so do we take the rankings on face value? Or discount all those wickets? It's a rabbit hole that's not worth going down.
Fair enough. I wonder if NZ posters feel the same - he's scored some good hundreds but definitely couldn't consider himself a world-class opener or in our ATG XI if he can't produce runs against the best sides.
Moss
International Vice-Captain
TBF he’s been quite rocks and diamonds against India and Pakistan (especially on tour), handled tough spin assignments really well at times. Deserved a century in the Kanpur test for the effort.
I guess but there is hardly openers round the world scoring heavily against the top sides at the moment. This only seems to be a problem with nz players, why are no other players around the world put under this much scrutiny. For example if I only watched kohli play in nz for the last few years I would wonder what all the hype is about but of course common sense would disagree.
HeathDavisSpeed
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Yeah, they were comparing Latham to all the top NZ batsmen of all time on Magic Talk yesterday, but at a very superficial 'weight of runs, number of centuries' basis. Latham's record overall may look reasonably decent, but given players like Crowe didn't get the opportunities to cash in against Zimbabwe or Bangladesh, any comparison to Crowe, Turner or Wright is very premature. Latham needs some decent scores against South Africa later this summer.
NZTailender
I can't believe I ate the whole thing
I mean he hasn't, but compared to others this century he's not done too bad IMO, but he could do better.
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
We would want a world class opener to average 45+ against all nations ideally right? But those have been in short supply in recent years, not just NZ
If we use Lathams debut year as a cut off, there aren't many blokes averaging 40 in the opening spot who are still playing currently
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
Not making excuses for his poorer form vs the better nations but I feel like he deserves a bit of context. Cricinfo did an analysis the other week about how the last decade had been one of the lowest for runs scored on average, and opening is arguably the hardest job in the batting game - but that said his flaws shouldn't be overlooked when we're considering an ATG NZ XI
Moss
International Vice-Captain
Well, Elgar and Karunaratne to name two less-heralded players. Watching Elgar in the South Africa-India series he sets the standard when it comes to tough runs you feel.Though Dimuth’s record has holes as well you could probably argue his record is less skewed than Latham’s.
Flem274*
123/5
Warner, Tamim, Karunaratne and Elgar are all more proven. Rohit and Rahul will pass him given more opportunity if they haven't already.
Latham has the talent to be better than them all, but the 40-70 and out issue from his debut year still plagues him. He has no issues getting in against top class attacks, but like Rohit away from home he always finds a new dumb way to throw a ton away.
Hopefully this new alpha Latham from yesterday who looks to dominate continues. I'm interested in the method change lol. This is the most intense and ruthless I've seen him at the crease.
He is 29 so he does have time to go on a tear, but he has underachieved to date imo.
Latham has the talent to be better than them all, but the 40-70 and out issue from his debut year still plagues him. He has no issues getting in against top class attacks, but like Rohit away from home he always finds a new dumb way to throw a ton away.
Hopefully this new alpha Latham from yesterday who looks to dominate continues. I'm interested in the method change lol. This is the most intense and ruthless I've seen him at the crease.
He is 29 so he does have time to go on a tear, but he has underachieved to date imo.
is latham heading towards becoming another wasteman
Great analysis.I mean he hasn't, but compared to others this century he's not done too bad IMO, but he could do better.
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
stats.espncricinfo.com
We would want a world class opener to average 45+ against all nations ideally right? But those have been in short supply in recent years, not just NZ
If we use Lathams debut year as a cut off, there aren't many blokes averaging 40 in the opening spot who are still playing currently
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
Not making excuses for his poorer form vs the better nations but I feel like he deserves a bit of context. Cricinfo did an analysis the other week about how the last decade had been one of the lowest for runs scored on average, and opening is arguably the hardest job in the batting game - but that said his flaws shouldn't be overlooked when we're considering an ATG NZ XI
That's what I was meant to be angling at - I don't see him as the lock in our ATG opening spot - right now - that others might, because people like Richardson (played less Tests and scored less hundreds, I know) made more runs against strong opposition. And I have no doubt (and hope) that over the next 5-6 years Latham will go from strength to strength and make him an easy selection.
But yeah, I have a big frustration with what Flem said. The 40-70 v good opposition then finding a way to get out. I think that's what a lot of us as NZers bemoan, that we finally have a guy who is technically proficient and is able to spend time at the crease, and has a strong all-round game, but doesn't convert as much as he should against the top 5. In his favour certainly is the fact that he's probably our best player on slow tracks and against slow bowling, potentially even more so than Kane now.
And that's a great comparison to see how other openers have gone. If you look at Cook's record, for example, he's ultra consistent across all opponents. 40 against Australia (I think we'd like to see that as a yardstick for Latham), doesn't overly feast on any side and averaged 45 with the toughest job in the game. I think you'd put Latham on the 2nd or 3rd tier of openers - the top tier for the Warners, Cooks, Sehwags who did it for decades, Tier 2 your 40+ performers like Sharma, Elgar, Karunaratne and maybe Latham + Agarwal, then your Brathwaites etc
I've got no doubt as to why this decade is the worst for lowest runs scored for openers. Seems so simplistic to say it but 15-20 years ago, it was the height of machismo and performance to be a Test opener - a bludgeoner like Hayden or a craftsman like Langer. Now, you're a man if you can hit dingers out of Westpac Stadium. And if you can't do that, bat 4-5 in Tests, and if you don't have the shots for that...then maybe you think about opening.
SillyCowCorner1
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How many runs does Ebadot need to concede in order to eclipse Rubel’s bowling average?
thierry henry
International Coach
Surely the more obvious answer is that Hayden and Langer (and Sehwag etc) played during a notoriously easy era for batting while the past decade has been notoriously hard?
Seems to me that the success of bludgeoners like Sehwag and Hayden at test match opening pairs more neatly with a lack of sideways movement during their era than with a lack of machismo in modern opening… machismo as a method tends to go out the window when she’s seaming all over the place.
thierry henry
International Coach
Actually that last part is arguably totally wrong in a sense (see: McCullum’s last test innings) but if we’re talking in broad brushstrokes, I think test openers became less prolific and slower scoring mostly because batting became harder.