Martin Crowe vs Virender Sehwag

[subshakerz]

An opener averaging 57+ isn’t impressive in any era?
I’d love to know how many openers have done that over 50+ tests

Hayden looks like one, and he just breached 60

Gavaskar averaged 60 or thereabout for around 50 tests from mid to late 70s.

Same with Hobbs last 50 tests.

Pretty sure Hutton would have a similar streak there.

Sutcliffe's career was that peak.

Must be more.

I bet you can find similar streaks in Cook and Warner around Sehwag's level as well.

 

[anil1405]

You know what it means to not have a high peak in comparison to other players and yet average close to 50?

It emphasises consistency in my books.

 

[subshakerz]

You know what it means to not have a high peak in comparison to other players and yet average close to 50?

It emphasises consistency in my books.

Then Smith is more consistent than Sehwag as he had no high peak.

 

[anil1405]

Then Smith is more consistent than Sehwag as he had no high peak.

Good for him.

He doesn't have Sehwag's s/r though.

 

[subshakerz]

Good for him.

He doesn't have Sehwag's s/r though.

That's the cost of averaging 40 plus in places where the bowl can move.

 

[anil1405]

That's the cost of averaging 40 plus in places where the bowl can move.

Good that you acknowledged Kallis' greatness, albeit indirectly.

 

[subshakerz]

Good that you acknowledged Kallis' greatness, albeit indirectly.

Kallis > Sehwag definitely.

 

[anil1405]

Kallis > Sehwag definitely.

That he is but you also emphasised a reason why Kallis is right up there with the other ATGs. Averaging 55 playing half your games in swinging conditions means more than averaging 55 or so on roads.

 

[subshakerz]

That he is but you also emphasised a reason why Kallis is right up there with the other ATGs. Averaging 55 playing half your games in swinging conditions means more than averaging 55 or so on roads.

I put Kallis 20-25 on the ATG batting list.

 

[anil1405]

I put Kallis 20-25 on the ATG batting list.

Where you put Kallis is secondary.

On one hand you are saying Smith should get a leeway for having inferior s/r to Sehwag coz he played home games in swinging conditions...

... While on the other hand you accuse Kallis all across the forum for being too slow despite playing in same conditions as Smith.

 

[Calm_profit]

Sehwag gets overrated most of time here in CW.

 

[subshakerz]

Where you put Kallis is secondary.

On one hand you are saying Smith should get a leeway for having inferior s/r to Sehwag coz he played home games in swinging conditions...

... While on the other hand you accuse Kallis all across the forum for being too slow despite playing in same conditions as Smith.

Nope, Overall record across countries matters more than SR which is a minor factor.

Kallis' SR I only bring up in comparison with players of similar records like Dravid, Border and Sanga.

So Smith's overall record vs Sehwag matters more than their SR difference to me.

 

[anil1405]

In Sehwag's case s/r is a big factor because he is wayyy ahead of the rest (barring Gilchrist).

Which means he decimated attacks on his day and demotivated them and set the match up on the plate for rest of the team to take advantage of.

No other opener has done that while averaging close to 50.

 

[subshakerz]

In Sehwag's case s/r is a big factor because he is wayyy ahead of the rest (barring Gilchrist).

Which means he decimated attacks on his day and demotivated them and set the match up on the plate for rest of the team to take advantage of.

No other opener has done that while averaging close to 50.

I am old school. Primary job of opener for me is to survive the new ball and build a platform.

You discount the many times Sehwag has thrown his wicket away with rash shots and ceded the advantage to the opposition and only remember the highlights, mostly on flat tracks.

And of course, not averaging 30 in NZ, SA and England, which in most comparisons should effectively end the conversation on Sehwag.

 

[anil1405]

I am old school. Primary job of opener for me is to survive the new ball and build a platform.

You discount the many times Sehwag has thrown his wicket away with rash shots and ceded the advantage to the opposition and only remember the highlights, mostly on flat tracks.

And of course, not averaging 30 in NZ, SA and England, which in most comparisons should effectively end the conversation on Sehwag.

On one hand you rate Sangakkara higher than Kallis because Sanga was more aggressive and here you are interestingly playing the defensive card.

You throw away wicket playing rash shots, not defensive cricket. If someone is averaging 50 with a s/r of 82 I would take those rash shots once in a while.

Also since you are banging on about the flat tracks discussion since the start of this thread, why is it that only one other opener averaged 50 apart from Sehwag in an era of flat tracks?

 

[subshakerz]

On one hand you rate Sangakkara higher than Kallis because Sanga was more aggressive and here you are interestingly playing the defensive card.

You throw away wicket playing rash shots, not defensive cricket. If someone is averaging 50 with a s/r of 82 I would take those rash shots once in a while.

Also since you are banging on about the flat tracks discussion since the start of this thread, why is it that only one other opener averaged 50 apart from Sehwag in an era of flat tracks?

Sanga pretty much scored the runs Kallis would but faster.

Sehwag's high SR and rashness means he can't score against lateral movement unlike other openers. A horrible weakness for an opener to have.

Btw I acknowledge openers have it tougher so I give them a 1-2 point boost in my inner calculations of them compared to middle order bats.

 

[anil1405]

I've gone through this thread again and I see that everyone who posted in favour of Crowe had mentioned why they rate him highly. Even @BazBall21 had his own reasoning as to why Crowe was average in certain circumstances, except....

P.S. I rate both very highly and I find comparing an opener with a middle order bat a bit unfair.

 

[Arachnodouche]

Sehwag gets overrated most of time here in CW.

Hardly. Everyone acknowledges him to be a flawed batsman but it's the intangibles surrounding him that make him such a fan-favorite.

 

[OverratedSanity]

P.S. I rate both very highly and I find comparing an opener with a middle order bat a bit unfair.

Opening in the subcontinent is nearly as hard as it is outside it imo. Can often be easier to bat up front here before the ball softens and the pitch is less worn/spinners aren't bowling.

 

[Anil]

crowe was more talented for sure...and better on tough tracks and against quality pace...