Looking Ahead...

[SJS]

At the moment, it would be Anderson or Jones rather than Gough, but that doesn't dramatically affect the comparison.

Australia certainly measure up better on paper, but if Harmison and Flintoff - the premier strike bowlers - stay fit and continue to receive the effective back up provided by Giles and Hoggard this season (a big "if"?) it's difficult to envisage anything other than a tight series.

Actually I was going to put Anderson in place of Gough who according to me should retire with whatever dignity he can muster. But the last time I suggested that, some people here fairly pounced on me.

But you are right it wont make a major difference.

As far as Harmison and Flintoff making a big difference if they bowl well, I think the same could apply to McGrath, Warne, Gillespie and company.

I think the Aussies are a better and much more settled batting side by comparison to England .

PLUS

there is Warne who will be a handful to most Englishmen , I feel.

I hope I am wrong because I think England getting the better of Australia will be good for world cricket but I think the chances of that happening are not great though better than 12 months ago.

 

[SJS]

AND despite Trescothic's recent runs, I do think England hasnt resolved their problems at the very top of the order. A better pair of openers could have handled an ageing McGrath better. I dont think Trescothic will get away with this Australian attack.

 

[garage flower]

In short, England are clearly a team on the up whereas Australia are - arguably - in gradual decline. That being the case the significant gap, which you mentioned earlier and which was evidenced by the thrashing England received the last time the sides met, certainly appears to be narrowing.

England's performance in South Africa will be instructive and a better gauge of their ability/improvement than the clinical wins over West Indies.

 

[twctopcat]

Okay. Lets look at them man for man.

BATTING :

Hayden Trescothic
Langer Strauss
Ponting Thorpe
Martyn Vaughan
Lehman Key/Bell
Katich Flintoff
Gilchrist Jones

This Aussie side will outscore this England side by 50 to 75 runs per innings on average.

BOWLING

McGrath Harmison
Gillespie Flintoff
Kasprowicz Gough
Brett Lee Hoggard

I think the sides are at best even. Of course you guys can argue about that but there isnt much between them either way.
SPINNER/S

Warne Giles

No Contest. This is one of the major differences between the two sides besides the Australian batting sides maturity and consistence of performance over a long time.

I rest my case. Your turn

Remember I am a neutral Indian

PS I amy have left out someone. Please feel free to point out.

I agree on paper the aussies may still be better but i think Harmison and Flintoff pose threats they haven't seen for a long time. And Hoggard is a great asset in terms of sheer hard work who has broken many partnerships this summer out of sheer grit, i would have him above Lee. As for Giles he still presents a threat however minor some say. I'm just optimistic that we can consistently get 20 wickets a game, something we haven't been able to say for a while, and this is coming from an unbiased englishman.

 

[marc71178]

England's performance in South Africa will be instructive and a better gauge of their ability/improvement than the clinical wins over West Indies.

Except if England win, everyone will say that it's because SA are useless (as they dd with NZ, WI etc.)

 

[Neil Pickup]

It will, in all likelihood, come down to whether the frontline bowlers on each side stay fit. Should, say, some crazed maniac trash Shane Warne's dressing room spouting statistic after statistic about how Murali is comprehensively better than him, break his leg with an abacus, and dislocate his wrist with a textbook of statistical test, and Glenn McGrath, er, <creativity ends> fall over, then it's a different game all together.

 

[a massive zebra]

Should, say, some crazed maniac trash Shane Warne's dressing room spouting statistic after statistic about how Murali is comprehensively better than him, break his leg with an abacus, and dislocate his wrist with a textbook of statistical test, and Glenn McGrath, er, <creativity ends> fall over, then it's a different game all together.

Thank you for those kind words, your worship.

 

[twctopcat]

The guy does look fetching in his white cricket jacket.

 

[tooextracool]

Without checking, I'd guess it's a long time since anyone other than Australia won a series in South Africa (apart from South Africa, of course), but England must start as favourites.

Perhaps the biggest concern would be whether Harmison and Flintoff get enough support from the other bowlers.

i fear for hoggard, given that hes been consistently rubbish on these sort of wickets in the past.....hopefully he can turn things around this time.

 

[tooextracool]

Actually I was going to put Anderson in place of Gough who according to me should retire with whatever dignity he can muster. But the last time I suggested that, some people here fairly pounced on me.

except that hes already retired?

 

[tooextracool]

I agree on paper the aussies may still be better but i think Harmison and Flintoff pose threats they haven't seen for a long time. And Hoggard is a great asset in terms of sheer hard work who has broken many partnerships this summer out of sheer grit, i would have him above Lee. As for Giles he still presents a threat however minor some say. I'm just optimistic that we can consistently get 20 wickets a game, something we haven't been able to say for a while, and this is coming from an unbiased englishman.

personally i think the england would have a better chance in the ashes if it was in australia, englands bowlers are more suited to bounce while the australians are much better with swing and seam movement(mcgrath in particular is nearly unplayable). of course if we see pitches like the ones we've seen this summer it wouldnt be all that bad.

 

[tooextracool]

Okay. Lets look at them man for man.

BATTING :

Hayden Trescothic
Langer Strauss
Ponting Thorpe
Martyn Vaughan
Lehman Key/Bell
Katich Flintoff
Gilchrist Jones

This Aussie side will outscore this England side by 50 to 75 runs per innings on average.

BOWLING

McGrath Harmison
Gillespie Flintoff
Kasprowicz Gough
Brett Lee Hoggard

I think the sides are at best even. Of course you guys can argue about that but there isnt much between them either way.
SPINNER/S

Warne Giles

butcher isnt going to be fit for the ashes i would assume?

 

[KennyD]

yeah as long as jones doesnt break down they probably play him, and im not sure if theyd pick giles, coz England is like one of the only places you can get away without a good spinner. Flintoff could pose a threat and Harmison if he can keep his form. But the Engglish top order, im not sure if it could hold its own...

 

[Neil Pickup]

yeah as long as jones doesnt break down they probably play him, and im not sure if theyd pick giles, coz England is like one of the only places you can get away without a good spinner. Flintoff could pose a threat and Harmison if he can keep his form. But the Engglish top order, im not sure if it could hold its own...

WRT Giles: did you follow any cricket this last English summer?

 

[KennyD]

yeah i know giles had a great time, took a some 5 fors and stuff. Probably insteadof saying `THEY probably wont pick GIles` i shoud have said `I wouldnt pick Giles` coz i dont rate him, and Australia will smack him

 

[SJS]

yeah i know giles had a great time, took a some 5 fors and stuff. Probably insteadof saying `THEY probably wont pick GIles` i shoud have said `I wouldnt pick Giles` coz i dont rate him, and Australia will smack him

They might smack him. (Indians have smacked Warne often), that doesnt change the fact that Giles is the most improved spinner in the world during the last 12 months, he is by far the best spinner in England and , in my opinion, the best left arm spinner today in the world.

If he still gets smacked by the Aussies, that doesnt change any of the above. They will annihiliate any other spinner England take in Giles place , in that case.

 

[Neil Pickup]

They might smack him. (Indians have smacked Warne often), that doesnt change the fact that Giles is the most improved spinner in the world during the last 12 months, he is by far the best spinner in England and , in my opinion, the best left arm spinner today in the world.

If he still gets smacked by the Aussies, that doesnt change any of the above. They will annihiliate any other spinner England take in Giles place , in that case.

That's the one.. and we've seen how well all-seam attacks work out.

 

[wpdavid]

yeah i know giles had a great time, took a some 5 fors and stuff. Probably insteadof saying `THEY probably wont pick GIles` i shoud have said `I wouldnt pick Giles` coz i dont rate him, and Australia will smack him

IIRC they didn't smack him too badly in Aus last time they played.
And, as good as the Aus batsmen are, if Giles can hold his own against Lara then there's no reason why he shouldn't do OK next summer

 

[twctopcat]

IIRC they didn't smack him too badly in Aus last time they played.
And, as good as the Aus batsmen are, if Giles can hold his own against Lara then there's no reason why he shouldn't do OK next summer

Exactly, not as if you have to be a wrist spinner to do well against the aussies, just look at Harbhajan Singh (and im not comparing the two).

 

[KennyD]

interesting stuff. I wish i could have watched ENgland play all these years but i dont have cable, wish I did.

Ok, now its time to get the crystal ball out and ask, What is the result of the ashes going to be?