Left-handed all time Test XI

[The Sean]

How has no one yet mentioned either Arthur Morris or Neil Harvey?

 

[Matt79]

Yeah, Morris over Anwar. I'd have Harvey just ahead of Border, but jeez AB would be stiff to miss out.

 

[Richard]

How has no one yet mentioned either Arthur Morris or Neil Harvey?

Morris > Lawry and Morris vs Hayden... no-contest, Morris wins without a backward glance.

Harvey vs AB, though... I know loads about AB, but would hesitate to say he's the better batsman until I examine the Harvey case closer. AB has to be one of the most underestimated batsmen ever, though.

 

[Anil]

I'd have Harvey just ahead of Border, but jeez AB would be stiff to miss out.

nope, border well ahead, i'd say...why does everyone underrate him so, i don't know?

 

[pasag]

Why does everyone underrate Harvey so much? He's one of our greatest batsmen and I'd have him over Border just, like Matt said.

 

[Anil]

Why does everyone underrate Harvey so much? He's one of our greatest batsmen and I'd have him over Border just, like Matt said.

never said harvey isn't, just said border is definitely undervalued, and as far as career accomplishments and contributions to aussie cricket goes, is definitely a greater player than harvey, he goes unnoticed a lot of times possibly because he was not flashy/stylish, tended to be more of a workmanlike kind of player and definitely less naturally (physically) talented than a lot of the players in his stratosphere....

 

[adharcric]

Border was undeniably a great batsman. Why is he better than Harvey though?

 

[Anil]

Border was undeniably a great batsman. Why is he better than Harvey though?

because for me, he played better, more consistent, better under-pressure cricket for a longer period of time than harvey...he was an even better pressure player than waugh and almost single-handedly carried the torch for aussie cricket for a long time in the 80s after chappell, lillee and marsh all left at once(and it was not like lara ended up doing, in losing causes, he managed to lead from the front and save a lot of games and even win a few through sheer grit)...

 

[Matt79]

Well if saying Border > S.Waugh and > Ponting but < Harvey, is underrating him, then I guess I underrate Border.

 

[Richard]

Well it's very interesting, I've just had a skim-read of Neil Harvey's career, and while he averaged in the late 50s and early 60s for a substantial part, and could certainly not be called a flat-track bully on first glance, it's very noticeable that he cashed-in big-time against the several weak attacks (nothing wrong in itself with that, of course, you expect a good player to do that) but those weak attacks seemed to occur with rather more regularity than they usually did in Border's day (when such an attack was pretty rare).

On first glance (and I emphasise that first glance) Border would strike me as the better player. And I'd certainly say he was the sort who'd be underrated because he wasn't flashy (rather like Davidson) and Harvey was not merely flashy as a batsman but a, well, colourful personality.

As to Border vs Stephen Waugh, Waugh at his peak was better, but Border's peak lasted pretty much his entire career, and Waugh outside his peak was very ordinary (and that lasted 50-odd Tests).

 

[stumpski]

To be fair to Harvey, he never played in a Test against New Zealand - possibly the weakest side in world cricket in the 50s.

 

[Richard]

Possibly?

NZ weren't even Test-standard at said time.

 

[The Sean]

Yeah, Morris over Anwar. I'd have Harvey just ahead of Border, but jeez AB would be stiff to miss out.

It's a tough call, that one. I'd take AB just at a push - Harvey in my opinion was the more naturally gifted and brilliant batsman, but AB is the man I'd ask to bat for my life under all conditions and against all attacks.

As Rich also said, while you'd never call Harvey a flat-track bully, he did cash in against WI and Sout Africa, but averaged only 38 (10 less than his career average) against England, the best opposition attack he could face. Admittedly, he still played some great innings against them, none more so than his 92* against a rampant Frank Tyson in 54-55 when all else was falling around him.

I guess this is where feelings come into it too - I grew up idolising AB, I saw him carry our woefully underachieving team through most of the 80s on his own back, continually stepping up and scoring mountains of runs when no one else could. So I take him over Harvey. Just.

I'd feel it was harsher on Harvey if I didn't have so much contempt for the man these days, sadly.

 

[Cameron-Moss]

Help me out here.

So far I've put down

Anwar
Hayden
Pollock
Lara
Border (c)
Sobers
Gilchrist (wk)
Akram
Davidson
Johnston
Bedi

Nice to see you got Sobers.

 

[Anil]

It's a tough call, that one. I'd take AB just at a push - Harvey in my opinion was the more naturally gifted and brilliant batsman, but AB is the man I'd ask to bat for my life under all conditions and against all attacks.

As Rich also said, while you'd never call Harvey a flat-track bully, he did cash in against WI and Sout Africa, but averaged only 38 (10 less than his career average) against England, the best opposition attack he could face. Admittedly, he still played some great innings against them, none more so than his 92* against a rampant Frank Tyson in 54-55 when all else was falling around him.

I guess this is where feelings come into it too - I grew up idolising AB, I saw him carry our woefully underachieving team through most of the 80s on his own back, continually stepping up and scoring mountains of runs when no one else could. So I take him over Harvey. Just.

I'd feel it was harsher on Harvey if I didn't have so much contempt for the man these days, sadly.

can't say i disagree with much of that...top post...

 

[Cameron-Moss]

Presuming it's left-arm bowlers and left-hand batsmen (and batting is disregarded if the bowler can't bat, and likewise if the batsman is right-handed but never bowls)...

It'd depend hugely on eras, TBH. There are 4 or 5 (mostly English) left-arm spinners (Rhodes, Verity, Lock, Underwood) who could quite easily play as a specialist attack if it was in the days of uncovered wickets, and unless it was on wickets that offered nothing to seam there's no way I'd have Hayden anywhere near a side.

Given that uncovered wickets that offered something to seam have been in the majority through Test history you can probably make a selection for such times... I'd have summat along the lines of...
Roy Fredericks
Arthur Morris
Brian Charles Lara
Graeme Pollock
Sir Garfield Sobers
Allan Border
Adam Gilchrist (w)
Alan Davidson
Wasim Akram
Wilfred Rhodes (c)
Hedley Verity \ Tony Lock \ Derek Underwood

On very flat wickets you'd probably want Hayden instead of Lawry, and obviously none of the fingerspinners would be much use so you'd probably pick two seamers like Bruce Reid and (EDIT) Bill Johnston. Unless (at the risk of sending Bennett into frenzy) you plumped for Dave Mohammed.

Mentioning Derek Underwood, I have a slight relation to him, He's my grandads, second cusins husband, something like that

 

[Anil]

Well if saying Border > S.Waugh and > Ponting but < Harvey, is underrating him, then I guess I underrate Border.

i guess you do... , kidding...that's a good rating, i'd agree with all of that except i'd have him over harvey as well...