Leading ODI Wicket takers .

[vandemataram]

Ian Botham took 383 test wickets, and for a long time was in the top 3 wicket takers in tests. It's only recently the likes of Walsh, Murali, Warne, McGrath and Akram (?) have passed him.

First of all we are talking about ODI. And if you want to talk about former cricketers, then let me tell you that Kapil Dev from India took more wickets than ur great Bothom.

 

[marc71178]

And how different the list looks when you compare bowlers based on their wicket to match ratio (i.e. how many wickets on average they take per match):

Saqlain 165 284 1.72
Donald 161 271 1.68
Waqar 256 409 1.60
McGrath 167 255 1.53
Warne 191 288 1.51
Murali 202 300 1.49
Pollock 180 260 1.44
Wasim 350 490 1.40
Javagal 217 297 1.37
Anil 237 302 1.27

And AA fits in with 1.51!

All hail AA!

 

[marc71178]

Yeah thats true, bowlers like Waseem, Waqar, Kumble,Murali are only in the list coz they have played so many matches.Otherwise in term of quality they aren't comparable to the English bowlers !:rolleyes:

At no point did I or anyone say those players are only in that list because of the number of matches they've played, I was merely pointing out that there is no way any English (or for that fact New Zealander or West Indian) could make a list of most wickets, but if you want to look at players who are there because of matches played, then Kumble certainly springs to mind.

 

[marc71178]

In terms of economy and average , Harmison takes the cake! Here are his stats,


Mat O R W BB1 BB2 Ave Econ SR 4w 5w
4 36.4 201 5 2/39 2/45 40.20 5.48 44.0 0 0

OK, if you want to pick on those that've hardly had a chance in ODI cricket, then so can I:

Name Mat O M R W Ave Best 4w 5w SR Econ

L Balaji 1 4 0 44 0 - - - - - 11.00
M Kartik 5 47 1 236 4 59.00 3-36 - - 70.5 5.02
RS Sodhi 18 77 3 365 5 73.00 2-31 - - 92.4 4.74

Now, all 3 of those have been mentioned by correspondents as they should be in te squad, Kartik for the World Cup (based on that superb 5.02) and Sodhi as the answer to the all rounder problem (except those figures hardly suggest "All-rounder" to me)

 

[Rik]

Yeah thats true, bowlers like Waseem, Waqar, Kumble,Murali are only in the list coz they have played so many matches.Otherwise in term of quality they aren't comparable to the English bowlers !:rolleyes:

Stop making up things will you? Marc said that the reason why English bowlers are never up there is due to not playing many ODIs in the past. He never even came close to saying that the bowlers who were at the top of the list were poor. Actually...he didn't even mention them!

 

[Bazza]

First of all we are talking about ODI. And if you want to talk about former cricketers, then let me tell you that Kapil Dev from India took more wickets than ur great Bothom.

I know the thread is about ODIs. I was responding to Sasnoz, who said you can't use the number of matches as an excuse because England have played lots of tests but no bowler has taken 400 wickets. I should have made that clearer sorry.

Incidentally on the wickets to matches ratio Gough (widely regarded as Englands best ODI bowler) averages 1.57 wickets per match, more than all except Saqlain, Donald and Waqar. Of course to keep that up over twice as many matches would be difficult, but that's impressive nonetheless...

 

[Rik]

First of all we are talking about ODI. And if you want to talk about former cricketers, then let me tell you that Kapil Dev from India took more wickets than ur great Bothom.

Please someone spell his name right! It's BOTHAM!

Your also forgetting that Kapil played 29 more Test matches than Botham...and took those Wickets at a higher average than Botham. And I can't remember him destroying the Australians strangely :rolleyes:

 

[Rik]

And AA fits in with 1.51!

All hail AA!

Wow...he matches Warne! What a turn up!

 

[Top_Cat]

Your also forgetting that Kapil played 29 more Test matches than Botham...and took those Wickets at a higher average than Botham. And I can't remember him destroying the Australians strangely

His best Test figures of 9/83 were against the Aussies, weren't they?

 

[Anil]

Please someone spell his name right! It's BOTHAM!

Your also forgetting that Kapil played 29 more Test matches than Botham...and took those Wickets at a higher average than Botham. And I can't remember him destroying the Australians strangely :rolleyes:

Compare the averages of both players vs Australia. You will find that there wasn't that much of a difference. In fact, Kapil's are slightly better than Botham's. In terms of overall average, Botham's is slightly better. That's mainly because in his last few tests, Kapil was a shadow of his former self. I am not saying one is better than the other, but Kapil was a great bowler and a great all-rounder, period.

Mat Balls R W BBI BBM Ave Econ SR 5 10

Kapil

in Australia 11 522.5 1254 51 8/106 8/109 24.58 2.39 61.5 5 0
in India 9 268.1 749 28 5/74 7/130 26.75 2.79 57.4 2 0

Botham

in Australia 18 4228 1963 69 6/78 11/176 28.44 2.78 61.2 3 1
in England 18 4251 2130 79 6/95 10/253 26.96 3.00 53.8 6 1

 

[aussie_beater]

His best Test figures of 9/83 were against the Aussies, weren't they?

No that was against the WI in 1983 at Kanpur.

 

[aussie_beater]

Please someone spell his name right! It's BOTHAM!

Your also forgetting that Kapil played 29 more Test matches than Botham...and took those Wickets at a higher average than Botham. And I can't remember him destroying the Australians strangely :rolleyes:

Well Botham played quite a number of more matches against Aus because he played for Eng.

And Kapil's 8/106 in 1985 at Adelaide would have probably won the match for India if 2 full days were not washed out due to rain.

 

[Rik]

CThat's mainly because in his last few tests, Kapil was a shadow of his former self.

Actually, so was Botham.

 

[sasnoz]

kapil played on some unhelpful conditions at home where botham had pace paradise,and dev had no back up opening bowlers

top 4 all rounders of the 80"s
imran khan
hadlee
dev
botham

 

[Rik]

kapil played on some unhelpful conditions at home where botham had pace paradise,and dev had no back up opening bowlers

top 4 all rounders of the 80"s
imran khan
hadlee
dev
botham

"botham had pace paradise" you what? Botham had to face the Australians more than most players as he played for England and the Ashes were every 2 years.

The top All-Rounders ever are as follows:

Sobers
Botham
Imran Khan
Kapil Dev
Richard Hadlee

This is the list picked by Wisden, your not going to try and claim they are all idiots now are you?

 

[Gotchya]

Yeah but what position on the list?

He was second or first in the list of all time ODI poor econ rates. Got pointed out during the Pak/Zim series.

 

[Rik]

He was second or first in the list of all time ODI poor econ rates. Got pointed out during the Pak/Zim series.

Balaji?

Ganguly's not far behind.

 

[Anil]

Actually, so was Botham.

I know...that was not my point anyway. You said Kapil hasn't destroyed the Aussies strangely, I just showed you some stats to make you understand that he has done quite well against them both in India and Australia and has a better average against them than even Botham. This, when weighed against the fact that the performances in India were on unhelpful pitches and conditions is even more commendable. In short, just making the point that Kapil was an exceptional bowler and all-rounder.

 

[Rik]

I know...that was not my point anyway. You said Kapil hasn't destroyed the Aussies strangely, I just showed you some stats to make you understand that he has done quite well against them both in India and Australia and has a better average against them than even Botham. This, when weighed against the fact that the performances in India were on unhelpful pitches and conditions is even more commendable. In short, just making the point that Kapil was an exceptional bowler and all-rounder.

Yes but Botham has been rated by many experts as the 2nd best all-rounder in history. Kapil has allways been around 4 or 5 with Sobers on top of course. I would rate Botham just slightly higher than Kapil. Also if you look at the 2 sides they played for...Botham had Willis and Dilley whilst Kapil had only spinners for support really. Kapil was the only real class seamer in the Indian team whilst Botham had 2 in support, so Kapil had to bowl more overs and therefore took more Wickets. I'm sure if they had both had the same career then they would have been very close.

 

[Gotchya]

Yes but Botham has been rated by many experts as the 2nd best all-rounder in history. Kapil has allways been around 4 or 5 with Sobers on top of course. I would rate Botham just slightly higher than Kapil.

Correction. Botham was not the second best becuase Imran comes into the equation as well here. The figures speak for themselves. We have had this just a little time ago.