Kallis’s bowling vs Imran’s batting

[subshakerz]

I don't exactly discount poor performances on the back of team strength, but there is no doubt they make a difference to records. Guys in weak teams debut often early, and stick in the team despite initial failures. Which drags their career stats down. See Hadlee and Marshall. Both played too early and averaged about infinity in their first few games. Marshall got his stats protected a bit by the WSC guys coming back and getting dropped. Hadlee played a lot of games cos his team was consistently weak and got his stats burned a bit. He averages 35 in his first 5 years and 20 after. Would have been considered a better bowler if he had been dropped for longer at the beginning and ended up with the GOAT average.

Kallis- super weak middle order early career. They averaged about 30 for a a couple of years either side of debut. That (plus his bowling) was getting him into the team before he was test quality as a bat. Which impacted his record. His average from 95-98 is 31 (25 till 97). From 98 till career end is 59. That's including his decline at the end.

Ok but that all takes for granted that greats in strong teams get dropped and then make it back. Many of the ordinary cricketers don't. So yes their early career stats are protected but they had to take a risk of being dropped.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Kallis

 

[Bolo.]

Ok but that all takes for granted that greats in strong teams get dropped and then make it back. Many of the ordinary cricketers don't. So yes their early career stats are protected but they had to take a risk of being dropped.

It's not just about getting dropped and getting back in. Debut age also goes down in a strong lineup.

We don't tend to discuss players who perform poorly for a short time and get dropped permanently.

 

[vidiq]

Imran Khan with the ball in Test Cricket from 1980 to 1986:
1980 - 30 wkts @ 21.46
1981 - 16 wkts @ 19.5
1982 - 62 wkts @ 13.29
1983 - 26 wkts @ 15.8
1984 - couldn't bowl a single ball because of injury played as a batter
1985 - 17 wkts @ 15.94
1986 - 33 wkts @ 14.21

Unrealistic Peak.

 

[Johan]

Imran Khan with the ball in Test Cricket from 1980 to 1986:
1980 - 30 wkts @ 21.46
1981 - 16 wkts @ 19.5
1982 - 62 wkts @ 13.29
1983 - 26 wkts @ 15.8
1984 - couldn't bowl a single ball because of injury played as a batter
1985 - 17 wkts @ 15.94
1986 - 33 wkts @ 14.21

Unrealistic Peak.View attachment 46473

how many away games did he play in this period

 

[vidiq]

how many away games did he play in this period

26

 

[Coronis]

how many away games did he play in this period

I know people always go on about Pakistani umpires and such so I thought I might check it out in particular with this portion of Imran’s career.

At home
23 matches 119 @ 15.73
37/119 LBW (31.01%)

Away
26 matches 99 @ 23.11
20/99 LBW (20.20%)

Overall for his career its more like 28 and 16.

 

[Migara]

Imran.

Kallis is a bowling equivalent to Hadlee's batting. Imran is a batting equivalent to Sobers' bowling.

Imran started out as a no.8, but for most of his career was no.6/7, and by the end of his career was regular no.6 He actually played as a pure bat too.

Kallis was only that level in the first 1/3rd of his career when he was taking 2 wickets a test. After that, he just wasn't as effective or bowled as much.

Imran' batting is better than Sobers' bowling. Sobers' batting is better than Imran's bowling. That is why I consider them tge top two cricketers, even above Bradman.

 

[Migara]

Garner's bowling better than both.

Both had better looks than Garner, but Garner had the better tool.

 

[Migara]

I know people always go on about Pakistani umpires and such so I thought I might check it out in particular with this portion of Imran’s career.

At home
23 matches 119 @ 15.73
37/119 LBW (31.01%)

Away
26 matches 99 @ 23.11
20/99 LBW (20.20%)

Overall for his career its more like 28 and 16.

At sub continent pacers bowl wicket to wicket. No surprise there.

Vaas played in era of neutral umpires. 62 out of 180 home dismissals (31%) are lbws. Vaas was considerably slower, but swung andreverse swung it like Imran. The numbers match perfectly.

 

[Coronis]

At sub continent pacers bowl wicket to wicket. No surprise there.

Vaas played in era of neutral umpires. 62 out of 180 home dismissals (31%) are lbws. Vaas was considerably slower, but swung andreverse swung it like Imran. The numbers match perfectly.

If you say so. I’m just listing a stat, not accusing anyone of anything. Note how I deliberately didn’t compare him to any other bowler. And tbf, for half Vaas’ career it was only 1 neutral umpire.

 

[Migara]

If you say so. I’m just listing a stat, not accusing anyone of anything. Note how I deliberately didn’t compare him to any other bowler. And tbf, for half Vaas’ career it was only 1 neutral umpire.

Sri Lankan umpires only known to be being terrible, not biased. The bad decisions were usual to both sides befote KD got in to action.