Kagiso Rabada vs Shoaib Akhtar

[trundler]

So you'd pick Akthar over Rabada no matter what people say ?

I didn't even pick him in this poll. I think you are doing him a disservice though.

 

[Silver Silva]

I didn't even pick him in this poll. I think you are doing him a disservice though.

How ? He didn't prove he can perform in SENA bar NZ which was 1 test match , the same metric used to say he brokedown everywhere else

 

[trundler]

How ? He didn't prove he can perform in SENA

Taking out his performance in NZ doesn't make sense when NZ were decent enough. You are also ignoring just how bad his home pitches were and how much of an impact he had there. He's not an ATG by any means or even close to it but he deserves credit for pulling off some insane performances. An away average of 25 is excellent and his home average of 26 considering the pitches he bowled on is even better in context.

 

[Silver Silva]

Taking out his performance in NZ doesn't make sense when NZ were decent enough. You are also ignoring just how bad his home pitches were and how much of an impact he had there. He's not an ATG by any means or even close to it but he deserves credit for pulling off some insane performances.

I'm not taking it out but im definitely shortselling NZ by calling them modest , Akthars record is better in Asia than in SENAZ and that home pitches for his skillset weren't as bad as made out to be ..
Akthar could reverse swing the ball at high pace. You are going to be a threat in Asia if you know how to master reverse swing cause of the abrasive nature of these pitches ..But that doesn't mean that it's a given his style of bowling would be 20 elsewhere ..
Chaminda Vaas was absolutely horrible in English conditions whenever he toured there when you would think being armed with a Duke ball in those English conditions he would prosper ..If you grow up in certain conditions you find a way to adapt and then you do it better than anyone else to get selected .

 

[subshakerz]

How ? He didn't prove he can perform in SENA bar NZ which was 1 test match , the same metric used to say he brokedown everywhere else

Akthar took a couple of fifers in Australia at their peaks on batting tracks, plus he had a 4fer in SA in a test which Pakistan won. England sadly he never played in his peak. If Akthar was fit and committed, he would have taken 300 wickets in the time span of his career and we would be comparing him to Imran and Wasim.

But because he was so unfit, he can't be rated ahead of any reasonable worldclass pacer like Rabada.

 

[trundler]

I'm not taking it out but im definitely shortselling NZ by calling them modest , Akthars record is better in Asia than in SENAZ and that home pitches for his skillset weren't as bad as made out to be ..
Akthar could reverse swing the ball at high pace. You are going to be a threat in Asia if you know how to master reverse swing cause of the abrasive nature of these pitches ..But that doesn't mean that it's a given his style of bowling would be 20 elsewhere ..
Chaminda Vaas was absolutely horrible in English conditions whenever he toured there when you would think being armed with a Duke ball in those English conditions he would prosper ..If you grow up in certain conditions you find a way to adapt and then you do it better than anyone else to get selected .

You said Akhtar's brilliant performance in NZ was down to that side being modest. He took 11 wickets in a game where Pakistan chased 277 in the 4th innings without much trouble. It wasn't a green seamer and that NZ side was decent. If that's not withholding due credit than nothing is. The guy played one innings in England and 4 tests in SA. One of those was a rain sodden draw in which nothing happened and he bowled for one innings and 5 overs and in another he took 4 in the first innings in a test Pakistan won and was off the field in the second innings. In another he took 5 and helped win his side the match. I would call that a good performance for a strike bowler. He went for runs but took wickets. That's what you expect from a guy like him. In Australia he was bad. No one is arguing this. Overall his away record is very respectable.

You can't work backwards from averages and say which conditions were favourable and which weren't for a bowler. That's circular reasoning. You have to look at how other players did in those circumstances. The overall average for pacers in the 2000s was 36.7 in Pakistan and 30.5 in SA. Do you honestly think that Akhtar would have a worse home record if his home games had been played in SA rather than Pakistan? He stood out a lot more in his era and home country than someone like Duanne Olivier does today and there's a reason for that. And that's a credit to Shoaib.

 

[Silver Silva]

You said Akhtar's brilliant performance in NZ was down to that side being modest. He took 11 wickets in a game where Pakistan chased 277 in the 4th innings without much trouble. It wasn't a green seamer and that NZ side was decent. If that's not withholding due credit than nothing is. The guy played one innings in England and 4 tests in SA. One of those was a rain sodden draw in which nothing happened and he bowled for one innings and 5 overs and in another he took 4 in the first innings in a test Pakistan won and was off the field in the second innings. In another he took 5 and helped win his side the match. I would call that a good performance for a strike bowler. He went for runs but took wickets. That's what you expect from a guy like him. In Australia he was bad. No one is arguing this. Overall his away record is very respectable.

You can't work backwards from averages and say which conditions were favourable and which weren't for a bowler. That's circular reasoning. You have to look at how other players did in those circumstances. The overall average for pacers in the 2000s was 36.7 in Pakistan and 30.5 in SA. Do you honestly think that Akhtar would have a worse home record if his home games had been played in SA rather than Pakistan? He stood out a lot more in his era and home country than someone like Duanne Olivier does today and there's a reason for that. And that's a credit to Shoaib.

Very good points

 

[Silver Silva]

You said Akhtar's brilliant performance in NZ was down to that side being modest. He took 11 wickets in a game where Pakistan chased 277 in the 4th innings without much trouble. It wasn't a green seamer and that NZ side was decent. If that's not withholding due credit than nothing is. The guy played one innings in England and 4 tests in SA. One of those was a rain sodden draw in which nothing happened and he bowled for one innings and 5 overs and in another he took 4 in the first innings in a test Pakistan won and was off the field in the second innings. In another he took 5 and helped win his side the match. I would call that a good performance for a strike bowler. He went for runs but took wickets. That's what you expect from a guy like him. In Australia he was bad. No one is arguing this. Overall his away record is very respectable.

You can't work backwards from averages and say which conditions were favourable and which weren't for a bowler. That's circular reasoning. You have to look at how other players did in those circumstances. The overall average for pacers in the 2000s was 36.7 in Pakistan and 30.5 in SA. Do you honestly think that Akhtar would have a worse home record if his home games had been played in SA rather than Pakistan? He stood out a lot more in his era and home country than someone like Duanne Olivier does today and there's a reason for that. And that's a credit to Shoaib.

I think modest is different from poor , sorry sometimes my English isn't always on point but I was trying to say they were an okay side ..

 

[trundler]

I think modest is different from poor , sorry sometimes my English isn't always on point but I was trying to say they were an okay side ..

Maybe we have different understandings of the term. All good.

 

[subshakerz]

You said Akhtar's brilliant performance in NZ was down to that side being modest. He took 11 wickets in a game where Pakistan chased 277 in the 4th innings without much trouble. It wasn't a green seamer and that NZ side was decent. If that's not withholding due credit than nothing is. The guy played one innings in England and 4 tests in SA. One of those was a rain sodden draw in which nothing happened and he bowled for one innings and 5 overs and in another he took 4 in the first innings in a test Pakistan won and was off the field in the second innings. In another he took 5 and helped win his side the match. I would call that a good performance for a strike bowler. He went for runs but took wickets. That's what you expect from a guy like him. In Australia he was bad. No one is arguing this. Overall his away record is very respectable.

You can't work backwards from averages and say which conditions were favourable and which weren't for a bowler. That's circular reasoning. You have to look at how other players did in those circumstances. The overall average for pacers in the 2000s was 36.7 in Pakistan and 30.5 in SA. Do you honestly think that Akhtar would have a worse home record if his home games had been played in SA rather than Pakistan? He stood out a lot more in his era and home country than someone like Duanne Olivier does today and there's a reason for that. And that's a credit to Shoaib.

Even in Australia, he was just raw pace when he toured in 99 and was hammered.

In 2004, he was a much craftier bowler and took a couple of fifers before he inevitably broke down, but that was a very respectable performance against an ATG side on batting tracks. The Aussies clearly feared him.

 

[Slifer]

Rabada for me. Tore apart an amazing Aussie attack back in 2016.

 

[Coronis]

Rabada for me. Tore apart an amazing Aussie attack back in 2016.

Bowling attacks are easy to tear apart.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Rabada for me. Tore apart an amazing Aussie attack back in 2016.

I really hope you're joking. The Australian batting lineup that season had Joe burns, Shaun marsh opening the batting, Callum Ferguson, Peter Nevill, Joe mennie etc. Even the some of the batsmen that were scoring runs at the time were hugely flawed in seam friendly conditions, like Voges. The lineup was a complete mess at the time.

 

[Flem274*]

Shoiab for me, just. It's very hard to say no to a force of nature. Barring disaster I'll be saying Rabada well before the end of his career though.

 

[_00_deathscar]

plus he had a 4fer in SA in a test which Pakistan won.

Cute. Doesn’t count.

 

[subshakerz]

Cute. Doesn’t count.

He also have a fifer in a winning test too.

 

[Slifer]

I really hope you're joking. The Australian batting lineup that season had Joe burns, Shaun marsh opening the batting, Callum Ferguson, Peter Nevill, Joe mennie etc. Even the some of the batsmen that were scoring runs at the time were hugely flawed in seam friendly conditions, like Voges. The lineup was a complete mess at the time.

I'm not. Australia at least in the first 2 tests had:G mode Steve Smith, Warner, Khawaja, Voges etc. And they were playing at home. In the two subsequent series vs England and Pakistan a similar Aus batting lineup made mince meat out of those attacks. Rabada dominated Australia plain and simple.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I'm not. Australia at least in the first 2 tests had:G mode Steve Smith, Warner, Khawaja, Voges etc. And they were playing at home. In the two subsequent series vs England and Pakistan a similar Aus batting lineup made mince meat out of those attacks. Rabada dominated Australia plain and simple.

In that series they were playing on the most seam friendly pitches seen in Australia in ages. Voges was a sitting duck on those decks and Khawaja then wasn't the Khawaja we know now. The rest were all really mediocre batsmen like the Marsh brothers, Ferguson, Mennie, etc. It was a two man batting lineup that wasn't suited to seaming pitches at all.

 

[Slifer]

In that series they were playing on the most seam friendly pitches seen in Australia in ages. Voges was a sitting duck on those decks and Khawaja then wasn't the Khawaja we know now. The rest were all really mediocre batsmen like the Marsh brothers, Ferguson, Mennie, etc. It was a two man batting lineup that wasn't suited to seaming pitches at all.

Not Rabadas fault or problem and on those same wkts RSA made enough runs. Fact is, Rabada did well vs a batting lineup that was dominating other bowling attacks around that time. Also, this very comparison is insulting, Rabada is a great great bowler, Shoaib is in the category with the Reids and Bishops ie the could've been great but for....

 

[Migara]

Akthar is perfect as 3rd or 4th seamer, bowling in 4-5 over spells, 12-15 overs per day at full intimidating pace. Pakistan tries to make a spearhead out of him