Johan
Hall of Fame Member
Though, I haven't seen evidence Lillee would do much better against strong Batting units on flat wickets away from home either, having easier tour isn't being a more skilled bowler.
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Joel Garner vs Dennis Lillee
- Thread starter PlayerComparisons
- Start date
Coronis
Hall of Fame Member
tbf Trueman was very much lacking in penetration away from home.
Away: 40.4 overs per match, 3.90 WPM, 62.6 SR
Home: 36.3 overs per match, 4.87 WPM, 44.9 SR
Johan
Hall of Fame Member
tbf Lillee was very much lacking in penatration away from home in the hearts of the two strongest batting units, Pakistan and West Indies
Home: 2.61 WPI, 22.3 overs an innings, 26.5 average, 51.2 SR
Away: 0.5 WPI, 22 overs an innings, 145 average, 268.0 SR
He has Lillee over Ambrose so I'm trying to understand the logic.
Coronis
Hall of Fame Member
Johan
Hall of Fame Member
True, 3 years from now Subs would be making a case for Rabada>Ambrose
subshakerz
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I do but I also explained earlier that if there was a clear varied away success I could overlook that. You know how I think about Trueman away.
subshakerz
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
No Ambrose is no.7 on my pacer list. I like Wasim more as a pacer but I rate Ambrose better. I have him over Bumrah too.
It just seems like I hate him because I am persistent in questioning what I think are basic issues in his record and skillset folks here overlook.
subshakerz
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Pakistan just three tests. And an injured test in WI. Come on man. This is desperate.
Johan
Hall of Fame Member
The pace variant of Ashwin tbh, magically dodged all difficult tours.
subshakerz
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Yeah except 81 Ashes and WSC. You really have some odd hate for Lillee.
Ashwin played plenty in SENA but failed.
Johan
Hall of Fame Member
Doing well in England for a pacer is the equivalent of a spinner/Ashwin doing well in Sri Lanka.
subshakerz
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Weren't you praising Ambrose for doing well in England?
Johan
Hall of Fame Member
Australia.
subshakerz
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
No also strong lineups in England but then you edited your post. Anyways you keep changing goalposts every post it's hard to tell.
Johan
Hall of Fame Member
Brother, my idea is simple.
Ambrose destroyed the strongest batting unit in their own backyard, over and over, and he did very well at home against them too like Lillee, therefore he's better as he's more proven against elite batting in away conditions. It's that simple. Lillee had piss easy tours
kyear2
Hall of Fame Member
You post negatively about him more than anyone about any other cricketer.
He was no. 1 in the world in the most compeditive era for pacers. He's a hair below McGrath.
So this is allowed? Or Only by you for Ambrose?
subshakerz
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
My case is simple also. There is a vast gulf in their overall wickettaking effectiveness, both in terms of career stages and just pure WPM, and that matters more than Ambrose awesomeness in Aus, where he has a level of penetration he simply didn't have against all others
Johan
Hall of Fame Member
ok, I guess we value different things.
subshakerz
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I thought it was Kallis? Or Ashwin?
We are talking about the best of the best pacers and I have Lillee just a hair ahead.
Only me. Not you.
subshakerz
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Indeed. I already know you rate folks based on against the best, that's fine as long as to me overall records doesn't have any notable shortcomings. It's why I used to go for Ambrose over Steyn but switched.