Jimmy Anderson

[Starfighter]

imagine if forgotten atvg chaminda vaas played for england and got more matches, a duke ball under cloud cover and media exposure. we'd never hear the end of it.

Vaas averaged 77.67 in England.

(that's not intended to defend Anderson by the way)

 

[Flem274*]

realised i missed a few posts so it's time for a few harsh truths.

if tim southee was english he'd be james anderson; a very good bowler with a slow start to his career who is lethal in friendly conditions and average to serviceable outside them.

in fact he's probably better since he can bowl with all the balls, not just one.

comparisons to wagner (let alone steyn, cummins and all the other #1 tier bowlers) are laughable. of course you're going to take the bowler who wins games on day 5 afternoon motorways. it's so much harder to find that kind of bowler.

english test spam has a lot to answer for when it comes to public perception. they desperately need an away ashes for the reality check. it will be another 5-0.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

english test spam has a lot to answer for when it comes to public perception. they desperately need an away ashes for the reality check. it will be another 5-0.

English Test spam is to blame so we need EVEN MORE 5 Test series with EVEN SHORTER time between them.

Nonsense argument. Absolute nonsense. It's to the very meagre credit of the ECB and the CA that they've finally gone back to agreeing playing each other every four years for Tests.

 

[Line and Length]

There is a difference between "harsh truths" and blatant NZ bias Flem.

 

[mr_mister]

Every 4 years?

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Every 4 years?

Because according to the logic in Flem's argument the home tests don't count, I'm just carrying that through to the logical conclusion

 

[GIMH]

the logic in Flem's argument

404 error

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Actually when Anderson was Southee's age (31) he had far worse stats:
340 wickets in 91 tests @ 30.16 to the end of 2013.
Southee has 284 wickets in 73 tests @ 29.00.

Anderson has done very well since then.

The trouble is that Southee is unlikely to play until late 30s as NZ has more depth and competition for places than England, so Southee will need to fight for his position.

 

[Line and Length]

Isn't "Flem's logic" an example of an oxymoron?

 

[harsh.ag]

The thing I most like about Anderson is that he transcended the brief and wondrous aspects of glory that happen to most men and journeyed in sport to mirror a well led life - mostly middling with triumphant highs and stoic lows.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Flem's a bargain bin Burgey. Sad!

 

[Adders]

And over 32 each in the 5 other countries that use it. Other then his 6 UAE tests, impressive though they may be, he averages under 25 in England and WI ie the Dukes places and yeah over 32 in Aus, India SA, SL and NZ

The evidence is so clear that saying he's been very average with the Kookaburra is just fact

This is such nonsense not just from you but @Burgey @Flem274* and especially @stephen .

Do you understand that a low 30's ave away from home is not ****? No one is arguing that its not the mark of the ATG best of the best bowlers, but when you combine that with ATG figures at home you've got a bowler that any team wants,

Put this 30 odd average into some context, we England fans put Jimmy in Aus 2010/11 and India 2012 out there as examples where he excelled overseas, look at his series ave for those series. Aus was 24 wickets @ 26 and India 12 @30........the second one especially looks ordinary unless you actually watched the series. Dhoni stated afterwards that Jimmy was the difference between the 2 sides........JA was outstanding, but hey, north of 30 ave is ****e yeah?

Now look at Jimmys ave in Aus, it's 35 ish, but do you factor in that apart from 10/11 he was bowling the best part of 2 days and then back into it after less than a day with his feet up for most of those tests? Funny isn't that when he had scores to work with he averaged nearly 10 less in the country? Thats on Englands batsmen not him.

For a knowledgeable community you are really prone to talking some serious ****e where this player is concerned.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Overall Anderson averages 3.85 wpm (600/156) while Southee averages 3.89 wpm (284/73). Interesting that Southee has slightly more wickets per match despite having far worse bowling conditions to bowl in and being part of a superior seam attack.

 

[trundler]

The trouble is that Southee is unlikely to play until late 30s as NZ has more depth and competition for places than England, so Southee will need to fight for his position.

Err. Archer, Woakes, Curran, Wood, Robinson are decent backup compared to Ferguson and... well just him.

 

[trundler]

This is such nonsense not just from you but @Burgey @Flem274* and especially @stephen .

Do you understand that a low 30's ave away from home is not ****? No one is arguing that its not the mark of the ATG best of the best bowlers, but when you combine that with ATG figures at home you've got a bowler that any team wants,

Put this 30 odd average into some context, we England fans put Jimmy in Aus 2010/11 and India 2012 out there as examples where he excelled overseas, look at his series ave for those series. Aus was 24 wickets @ 26 and India 12 @30........the second one especially looks ordinary unless you actually watched the series. Dhoni stated afterwards that Jimmy was the difference between the 2 sides........JA was outstanding, but hey, north of 30 ave is ****e yeah?

Now look at Jimmys ave in Aus, it's 35 ish, but do you factor in that apart from 10/11 he was bowling the best part of 2 days and then back into it after less than a day with his feet up for most of those tests? Funny isn't that when he had scores to work with he averaged nearly 10 less in the country? Thats on Englands batsmen not him.

For a knowledgeable community you are really prone to talking some serious ****e where this player is concerned.

C'mon that's revisionism. You know it. His method just doesn't work in those conditions. He doesn't have the lift or pace.

 

[Teja.]

Anderson also just sort of looks better imo. Swings it miles both ways. If I only saw an over of each I'd come away thinking Anderson was better.

Yeah, this is what I think.

I've said in the past that Anderson is overrated because I think he's on the same level of effectiveness/success as a few other bowlers like Vass or Broad but he seems to be a lot more in control of what he is doing which people translate to him being more skillful.

Even I think that the idea of him being a middle of the road trier is a nonsense though.

 

[Daemon]

Put this 30 odd average into some context, we England fans put Jimmy in Aus 2010/11 and India 2012 out there as examples where he excelled overseas, look at his series ave for those series. Aus was 24 wickets @ 26 and India 12 @30........the second one especially looks ordinary

Wow thanks for posting this Adders. Really opened my eyes. Having such figures for his two best away series ever after 156 Tests is indeed quite poor.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Err. Archer, Woakes, Curran, Wood, Robinson are decent backup compared to Ferguson and... well just him.

Kyle Jamieson - one of the few cricketers who looks down on Joel Garner (batting av 46, bowling 16).

 

[trundler]

Also the idea that Anderson is a skilled container away from home is the opposite of damning with faint praise. It's an admission that he isn't good enough to take wickets away from home while somehow attempting to praise him. A containing bowler is a bargain. You wouldn't want Trevor Goddard ahead of Waqar on a road. That's ridiculous. Drying up the runs only has value if you're building up pressure that'll make the batsman crack eventually. If there's no pay-off it's pointless. And it certainly isn't befitting of the leader of the attack.

 

[Teja.]

Anderson bowled a really good spell in Mumbai that 2012 series which turned things around but was mostly unpenetrative tbh which is reflected in him averaging 3 wickets a match @ 30 each.

There's about half a dozen fast bowlers at least who have done a lot better in India in the last decade and Anderson was not a stand out at all.

Dhoni's statement as a losing captain is not something I would attach a lot to weight to tbh.