Jasprit Bumrah vs Dennis Lillee

[Randomfan]

Funnily, touring pacers in West Indies in 70s averaged 35 and in Pakistan 52

In the 1960s, touring pacers in West Indies averaged 33 and 36 in Australia.

Lillee is really lucky he never had to frequently tour West Indies, might have ended with a John Snow average.

A good point. If Lillee had toured WI/Pak frequently his stats may have looked different.

 

[Randomfan]

Statsguru

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?bowling_pacespin=1;class=1;filter=advanced;groupby=host;home_or_away=2;orderby=wickets;spanmax2=16+Jul+2025;spanmin2=01+Jan+2018;spanval2=span;template=results;type=bowling

Thanks. I did not try this earlier and it's very good way to drill down.

 

[govinda indian fan]

Pakistan had very strong batting, even away from home they were on par with Australia and England. Like I told Subs earlier, this is why I think Trueman was a better bowler than Lillee, Lillee averaged 27 and 25 at home against the two strongest batting lineups of his time while Trueman did 24 and 18 against the two strongest of his time (Australia and West Indies), and Trueman won games and series in the heart of the strongest batting unit while Lillee never played in West Indies and we all know what happened in Pakistan.

How much did Lillee averaged vs wi at home. Imo wi had best batting line up from 1975-1987 with likes of viv, Llyod, Greenidige, haynes and gomes

 

[Randomfan]

It's available on statsguru

Thanks.

I was looking for how he got it. I was half assuming it was from there.

 

[Johan]

How much did Lillee averaged vs wi at home. Imo wi had best batting line up from 1975-1987 with likes of viv, Llyod, Greenidige, haynes and gomes

25.3 vs West Indies and 27.4 vs Pakistan. I reckon on flat and slow wickets away from home in West Indies and Pakistan he'd go for 30+

 

[govinda indian fan]

Pakistan had very strong batting, even away from home they were on par with Australia and England. Like I told Subs earlier, this is why I think Trueman was a better bowler than Lillee, Lillee averaged 27 and 25 at home against the two strongest batting lineups of his time while Trueman did 24 and 18 against the two strongest of his time (Australia and West Indies), and Trueman won games and series in the heart of the strongest batting unit while Lillee never played in West Indies and we all know what happened in Pakistan.

Pak did have great batting line up in 70s. sadiq Mohammed majid khan, zaheer abbas, asif iqbal and young maindad

 

[govinda indian fan]

25.3 vs West Indies and 27.4 vs Pakistan.

Wow pak played Lillee much better then others

 

[Coronis]

Bumrah is one of those rare bowlers who can beat Lillee in both quality and era-adjusted reputation

Oh good we’re era adjusting this now too.

 

[ankitj]

what do you think Lillee would average in post 2018 era?

Not 19 and change

 

[kyear2]

For a minimum of 50 test wickets, of the top 13 guys with the best SR, 9 are current, 3 are pre ww1 (Lohmann, Ferris and Barnes) and 1 is Shane Bond. So yup, agree with the SR point

Damn.

 

[subshakerz]

25.3 vs West Indies and 27.4 vs Pakistan. I reckon on flat and slow wickets away from home in West Indies and Pakistan he'd go for 30+

That's just speculation since in the WSC in WI Lillee didn't average 30 plus.

And you constantly dismiss Lillee in tests against WI. 55 wickets in 11 tests @25 at a sub 50 SR against the best team ever is outstanding.

It's wierd you were trying to downplay McGrath for an objectively ordinary overall record against SA yet feel fit to critique this as if Lillee failed. At least be consistent.

 

[OverratedSanity]

That's just speculation since in the WSC in WI Lillee didn't average 30 plus.

And you constantly dismiss Lillee in tests against WI. 55 wickets in 11 tests @25 at a sub 50 SR against the best team ever is outstanding.

It's a decent record. Helped more than a bit by some helpful decks though. Like that horrible 1981 mcg pitch where he got a 10fer iirc.

 

[subshakerz]

A good point. If Lillee had toured WI/Pak frequently his stats may have looked different.

He is pretending Lillee never toured WI. He did and didn't average 30 plus.

Lillee IMO would have done perfectly fine in SC and WI with more tours.

 

[kyear2]

Older batsmen had solid defence and mostly played for draws if not for wins. Thats the reason imran has strike rate of 56 away

Though it was because he lacked penetration.

 

[Coronis]

That's just speculation since in the WSC in WI Lillee didn't average 30 plus.

And you constantly dismiss Lillee in tests against WI. 55 wickets in 11 tests @25 at a sub 50 SR against the best team ever is outstanding.

It's wierd you were trying to downplay McGrath for an objectively ordinary overall record against SA yet feel fit to critique this as if Lillee failed. At least be consistent.

I’m not personally downplaying him myself. But second best team ever. (and definitely not the best batting team ever)

 

[subshakerz]

It's a decent record. Helped more than a bit by some helpful decks though. Like that horrible 1981 mcg pitch where he got a 10fer iirc.

Well then let's be consistent. We can talk about some of the decks Ambrose had in Aus for example.

But in no way did Lillee underperform against WI and it's just revisionism to suggest so.

 

[subshakerz]

I’m not personally downplaying him myself. But second best team ever. (and definitely not the best batting team ever)

Ok that's a different debate. I will concede Aus 2000 had better batting.

 

[DrWolverine]

Lillee IMO would have done perfectly fine in SC and WI with more tours.

I think Lillee was skilled enough and had the pace to do well in the subcontinent.

 

[subshakerz]

I think Lillee was skilled enough and had the pace to do well in the subcontinent.

He was a master at cutters and in fact taught them to Imran, Marshall, etc.

Give him some of the decks Marshall had in Pakistan and he would have succeeded.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Well then let's be consistent. We can talk about some of the decks Ambrose had in Aus for example.

Ambrose's record in australia is so insanely good in australia that that discussion is futile. He did well on every kind of deck australia served up.