Jaiswal Vs Brook Vs Mendis Vs Rachin Vs green Vs webster vs Konstas Vs Jacob Bethel

[subshakerz]

Viv definitely achieved more in Australia against the great aussie pacer of that era than Sachin did in Australia against the great aussie pacer of his era.

I rate Tendulkar in 92 and 99 as better than any Viv series in Aus barring 79.

 

[Johan]

I rate Tendulkar in 92 and 99 as better than any Viv series in Aus barring 79.

How does that have anything to do with the comment I made?

 

[subshakerz]

absence of evidence is not evidence of absence for me, if someone is successful in England then New Zealand would mostly be a cake walk. Regardless, Sachin was solid in those countries and deserves credit for that but I'm not gonna assume Viv would tank

We can't assume Viv would tank nor can we assume Viv would max up. He is unproven in NZ, SL and SA.

And if NZ was a cakewalk based on England why did Viv have a poor series in 87? We can't take it for granted.

 

[subshakerz]

How does that have anything to do with the comment I made?

Sorry clipped the wrong bit.

Just saying if we look series by series, Tendulkar has a very good case of being as impressive in Aus. Viv just edges it based on 79 but Tendulkar has more impressive series and knocks aside from that.

 

[Johan]

We can't assume Viv would tank nor can we assume Viv would max up. He is unproven in NZ, SL and SA.

And if NZ was a cakewalk based on England why did Viv have a poor series in 87? We can't take it for granted.

I never said We should assume he would crank it up or destroy them, I said him not getting games there isn't in his control and as we have no reason to assume he'd fail, sure you can give Sachin points for more countries of excellence but their record in overlapping countries is objectively more accurate and Tangible.

it was 4 innings.

 

[Johan]

Sorry clipped the wrong bit.

Just saying if we look series by series, Tendulkar has a very good case of being as impressive in Aus. Viv just edges it based on 79 but Tendulkar has more impressive series and knocks aside from that.

So...you agree that Viv is better in Australia, something I've been saying too.

 

[subshakerz]

So...you agree that Viv is better in Australia, something I've been saying too.

Right. But my point is that it's only really in England where Viv makes any real distance between him and Tendulkar.

I don't see how slight advantages overall in small samples can overcome a more accomplished record. It's not Viv's fault but it's to Sachins credit.

 

[Johan]

Right. But my point is that it's only really in England where Viv makes any real distance between him and Tendulkar.

I don't see how slight advantages overall in small samples can overcome a more accomplished record. It's not Viv's fault but it's to Sachins credit.

and Pakistan. He's 4/4 on England/Australia/Pakistan/their opposition home conditions, that easily makes up for Saxhin's decent/good record in SA and NZ, it makes it closer for me (else it would've been a blowout frankly) but not close enough to push SRT over the line.

 

[subshakerz]

sure you can give Sachin points for more countries of excellence but their record in overlapping countries is objectively more accurate and Tangible.

Great, we can give Tendulkar credit for those extra countries. I don't think there is a bat who has played all these countries aside from Tendulkar and averaged 40 everywhere and against anyone.

it was 4 innings.

4 innings in which Viv did nothing and enough evidence to show he was capable of underperforming there hence we can't assume he would have been great.

 

[subshakerz]

and Pakistan. He's 4/4 on England/Australia/Pakistan/their opposition home conditions, that easily makes up for Saxhin's decent/good record in SA and NZ, it makes it closer for me (else it would've been a blowout frankly) but not close enough to push SRT over the line.

You forgot SL.

Think Tendulkar is at least very good in SA, SL and NZ. Three extra countries worth of credit to get him over the line.

 

[Johan]

Great, we can give Tendulkar credit for those extra countries. I don't think there is a bat who has played all these countries aside from Tendulkar and averaged 40 everywhere and against anyone.

Again, same question I asked you a while ago, but you glossed over it, is Root better than Gavaskar away from home considering his record in SA/UAE/SL and yada yada where Gavaskar hasn't played?

4 innings in which Viv did nothing and enough evidence to show he was capable of underperforming there hence we can't assume he would have been great.

we can't assume anything, but unless he can bring in tangible returns of say a sub 40 average over a decent sample sizes in NZ or SA, I can do nothing but give Sachin extra credit and move on, again, just comes down to my standard of overlapping countries > number of runs when comparing different eras.

also, I'm pretttty sure Barrington does that same feat as Sachin of 44+ everywhere.

 

[Johan]

You forgot SL.

Think Tendulkar is at least very good in SA, SL and NZ. Three extra countries worth of credit to get him over the line.

SL is okay, but it's FTBing at it's finest, look at the wickets and scorecards for his 1997 and 2010 series, don't rate his SL record much. His SA and NZ record are very good but once again, my standard is slightly different.

 

[Line and Length]

Again, same question I asked you a while ago, but you glossed over it, is Root better than Gavaskar away from home considering his record in SA/UAE/SL and yada yada where Gavaskar hasn't played?


we can't assume anything, but unless he can bring in tangible returns of say a sub 40 average over a decent sample sizes in NZ or SA, I can do nothing but give Sachin extra credit and move on, again, just comes down to my standard of overlapping countries > number of runs when comparing different eras.

also, I'm pretttty sure Barrington does that same feat as Sachin of 44+ everywhere.

Yes. Ignoring his single Tests (where he averages 70+) Barrington has a remarkable away from home record.
A reminder:
Australia 69.73
India 96.29
NZ 73.50
SA 101.00
WI 44.25 ( a relative 'failure' by his lofty standards)

I always recall one description about the man. "He arrives at the crease like a bulldog with a Union Jack wrapped around his shoulders, The more you tried to unsettle him, the more determined he became." I think it was in a book I read - possibly by Davidson.

 

[subshakerz]

Again, same question I asked you a while ago, but you glossed over it, is Root better than Gavaskar away from home considering his record in SA/UAE/SL and yada yada where Gavaskar hasn't played?

Not sure because of Australia. But they are close on just away record.

we can't assume anything, but unless he can bring in tangible returns of say a sub 40 average over a decent sample sizes in NZ or SA, I can do nothing but give Sachin extra credit and move on, again, just comes down to my standard of overlapping countries > number of runs when comparing different eras.

Ok that's a different point than you earlier saying Viv was capable of that and just sidestepping Tendulkars in those countries. Viv was unproven.

 

[Coronis]

Yes. Ignoring his single Tests (where he averages 70+) Barrington has a remarkable away from home record.
A reminder:
Australia 69.73
India 96.29
NZ 73.50
SA 101.00
WI 44.25 ( a relative 'failure' by his lofty standards)

I always recall one description about the man. "He arrives at the crease like a bulldog with a Union Jack wrapped around his shoulders, The more you tried to unsettle him, the more determined he became." I think it was in a book I read - possibly by Davidson.

iirc someone had from a book of lists, if they were to choose one batsmen to bat for their life, it’d be Kenny.

 

[subshakerz]

SL is okay, but it's FTBing at it's finest, look at the wickets and scorecards for his 1997 and 2010 series, don't rate his SL record much. His SA and NZ record are very good but once again, my standard is slightly different.

Sure but at the end of the day averaging 67 in SL even on flat decks is bottomline very good. I wouldn't call it great though.

So three extra countries each with unique challenges Tendulkar was very good in. I will take that as a more accomplished away record thanks.

 

[Johan]

Not sure because of Australia. But they are close on just away record.

...then isn't Root a better bat as he's plain better at home? (55 vs 50)

Ok that's a different point than you earlier saying Viv was capable of that and just sidestepping Tendulkars in those countries. Viv was unproven.

I do think Viv would've succeeded but my overall point has been that Sachin was not so brilliant in those two countires that it would make me turn the tide, and I'd consider superiority in overlapping countries > good performances in a few more venues.

again, this just comes down to me believing extra country performances is more of a tie breaker if the performance in overlapping countries is the same, we give different levels of importance to the prior.

 

[Johan]

Sure but at the end of the day averaging 67 in SL even on flat decks is bottomline very good. I wouldn't call it great though.

So three extra countries each with unique challenges Tendulkar was very good in. I will take that as a more accomplished away record thanks.

Nah, I can see why one would rate South Africa (uneven bounce, green wickets) or New Zealand but Sachin's stuff in SL is just beating on flat wickets, bowling lineups being hopeless in a couple.

if He had made runs in 2002/2007, or if Murali played in 2010, sure, but he didn't play in 2002 and didn't score in 2007, so as far as I'm concerned it barely means much to my evaluation of them.

 

[subshakerz]

Nah, I can see why one would rate South Africa (uneven bounce, green wickets) or New Zealand but Sachin's stuff in SL is just beating on flat wickets, bowling lineups being hopeless in a couple.

if He had made runs in 2002/2007, or if Murali played in 2010, sure, but he didn't play in 2002 and didn't score in 2007, so as far as I'm concerned it barely means much to my evaluation of them.

I wouldn't ignore it entirely. It's still goes to Tendulkars credit. You were giving credit to Sobers for performing at home on flat tracks.

 

[subshakerz]

...then isn't Root a better bat as he's plain better at home? (55 vs 50)

It's closer as Gavaskar was opener.

again, this just comes down to me believing extra country performances is more of a tie breaker if the performance in overlapping countries is the same, we give different levels of importance to the prior.

Yeah and I would say that if Viv was overwhelming superior in all four countries I would have him better. But aside from England, it's close enough for me to rate Tendulkars accomplishments higher.

We can agree to disagree.