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Jacques Kallis vs Imran Khan

Who is the greater test cricketer?

  • Imran but it’s close

    Votes: 18 60.0%

  • Imran and it’s not close

    Votes: 9 30.0%

  • Kallis but it’s close

    Votes: 3 10.0%

  • Kallis and it’s not close

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    30
shortpitched713

shortpitched713

Cricketer Of The Year
Imran the better all-rounder definitely. And assuming batting and bowling value parity, Imran still a better cricketer overall, but by a lesser margin.
 
kyear2

kyear2

Hall of Fame Member
But by how much?

Imran is about 8th as a bowler, Kallis about what, 15?

But Kallis the bowler for me isn't that separated from Imran the batsman.

Kallis was also a absolute top tier slip and ridiculously crucial to the success of SA's bowlers.

I have have Imran overall 10th all time and Kallis around 15th or so. Don't see how that's not close and doesn't require some thought.

Hammond is a much better comp though.
 
subshakerz

subshakerz

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
kyear2 said:
But by how much?

Imran is about 8th as a bowler, Kallis about what, 15?

But Kallis the bowler for me isn't that separated from Imran the batsman.

Kallis was also a absolute top tier slip and ridiculously crucial to the success of SA's bowlers.

I have have Imran overall 10th all time and Kallis around 15th or so. Don't see how that's not close and doesn't require some thought.

Hammond is a much better comp though.
Click to expand...
Are you tired of debating this?
 
Migara

Migara

International Coach
kyear2 said:
But by how much?

Imran is about 8th as a bowler, Kallis about what, 15?

But Kallis the bowler for me isn't that separated from Imran the batsman.

Kallis was also a absolute top tier slip and ridiculously crucial to the success of SA's bowlers.

I have have Imran overall 10th all time and Kallis around 15th or so. Don't see how that's not close and doesn't require some thought.

Hammond is a much better comp though.
Click to expand...
Imran averaged 50 with the bat some period. Kallis never dominated with the ball like that. Kallis' fielding is easily matched by the charisma and the captaincy ability of Imran. The only player who could be rated above him is Sobers. All top 5 - 8 cricketers are very close to each other with quality with no major gaps between them.
 
X

Xix2565

International Regular
Imran would help a team more in general, even if he gets arrested in the end later on tbh. Can lead, bowl, bat somewhat, organize tampering properly and has aura.
 
kyear2

kyear2

Hall of Fame Member
Migara said:
Imran averaged 50 with the bat some period. Kallis never dominated with the ball like that. Kallis' fielding is easily matched by the charisma and the captaincy ability of Imran. The only player who could be rated above him is Sobers. All top 5 - 8 cricketers are very close to each other with quality with no major gaps between them.
Click to expand...
We've had this discussion way too often for that stat to still be thrown around.

Even taking into account his later career when he was no longer a primary bowler, his rpi was only 30, the volume and production never came close to the average. It wasn't the output of a top flight batsman as the average would suggest.

And charisma, really?
 
subshakerz

subshakerz

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
kyear2 said:
We've had this discussion way too often for that stat to still be thrown around.

Even taking into account his later career when he was no longer a primary bowler, his rpi was only 30, the volume and production never came close to the average. It wasn't the output of a top flight batsman as the average would suggest.

And charisma, really?
Click to expand...
30 is the RPI of a lower order bat.
 
B

Bolo.

International Captain
akilana said:
Kallis was better as a batsman than Imran was as a bowler.. even statistically.
Click to expand...
Only if you include the games that Imran played as a bat... which really shouldn't be included if you are assessing him as a bowler.
 
B

Bolo.

International Captain
My answer to the OP is Imran on a game by game basis, and Kallis for career.

If Imran had played 166 tests, the answer would clearly have been Kallis.

If Kallis had played 88 tests, and not needed to hold back on his pace or amount bowling per game due to workload, it would have probably been Kallis.

I usually prefer amount of time played to tests played as a measure. But we can see how badly Imran crashed from workload. And we can see Kallis crashing as a bowler from workload around the time that he was smart enough to admit that it was not sustainable. And that the team would be better served in the long term by dialling it back.
 
X

Xix2565

International Regular
Imran actually was a frontline bowler though, he's closer to McGrath/Marshall/Hadlee than he is to 4th options like Kallis. There's nothing in Kallis's record that suggests he could have been a lead pacer like say Donald/Ntini/Steyn. You can't penalise Imran on that hypothetical of a potentially less worn out Kallis.
 
Migara

Migara

International Coach
kyear2 said:
We've had this discussion way too often for that stat to still be thrown around.

Even taking into account his later career when he was no longer a primary bowler, his rpi was only 30, the volume and production never came close to the average. It wasn't the output of a top flight batsman as the average would suggest.

And charisma, really?
Click to expand...
RPI is affected by not outs. He had a lot of not outs.

He had charisma. He ran your boys at their absolute best to draws and you needed cheating to get out of the hole. That is what Imran had. You guys are absolutely bitter about how Imran gave your best sides in the history a run for the money, despite not having the best side that played for his country.

And he became the PM. That is charisma plus if you want to consider.
 
B

Bolo.

International Captain
Xix2565 said:
Imran actually was a frontline bowler though, he's closer to McGrath/Marshall/Hadlee than he is to 4th options like Kallis. There's nothing in Kallis's record that suggests he could have been a lead pacer like say Donald/Ntini/Steyn. You can't penalise Imran on that hypothetical of a potentially less worn out Kallis.
Click to expand...
Imran was far more than a frontline bowler. In addition to being one of the best who has ever played, he carried a stupid workload in his peak. Very few quicks have carried that kind of load and level of responsibility. And that workload is just his bowling. He did a ton of batting too. Possibly captaincy as well in terms of workload. I've never captained, and don't know if it makes a difference. But his workload shut him down repeatedly. Couldn't bowl for a nearly a couple of years at his peak. Early retirement before coming back. And couldn't bowl at the end.

There is no point comparing one of the top handful of of bowlers ever to Kallis as a bowler. Kallis was a batting AR.

On total workload though, nobody beats Kallis. He spent longer at the crease than almost anyone else in history. He bowled more overs than Imran. And spent more time in the slips than just about anyone else when not bowling. He handled being a frontline everything for a couple of years in the early 2000s, but it wasn't sustainable. In international cricket he, was probably carrying 3 or 4 times Imrans average load per year at that stage. And we know what happened to Imran.
 
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