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Jacques Kallis vs Imran Khan

Better cricketer ?

  • Kallis

    Votes: 17 27.9%

  • Imran

    Votes: 44 72.1%
  • Total voters
    61
Adorable Asshole

Adorable Asshole

International Regular
Chrish said:
Tbh there isn’t much into it when it comes between those three.

Sobers gets the highest praise partially because of the era he played in. It was considered very dull era for cricket due to guys like Barrington/ Bill Lowery etc. batting really really slow. Sobers made cricket attractive again by his attacking style. Perhaps there is an appeal to it.

Conversely, Kallis gets underrated due to his style of batting.
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Not really. Imran and Sobers are significantly better all rounders than Kallis. Even Hadlee, Miller and Pollock are better all rounders than Kallis.

There was good reddit thread about it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Cricket/comments/14pz50h
 
Adorable Asshole

Adorable Asshole

International Regular
Coronis said:
Oh please everyone in cricket history has been tampering with the ball. Up until recently, where so many cameras makes it extremely hard.
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Social Media also has a part in as well. Supporters of the losing team would always cry of cheating which makes Cricket look bad roo the public and administrators more likely to punish ball tampering.
 
shortpitched713

shortpitched713

International Captain
Adorable Asshole said:
Not really. Imran and Sobers are significantly better all rounders than Kallis. Even Hadlee, Miller and Pollock are better all rounders than Kallis.

There was good reddit thread about it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Cricket/comments/14pz50h
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Jadeja at 3, Pollock at 6, and Ashwin at 10. I really like this methodology.

Shows also that truly great "batting centered" allrounders have been rare when it comes to 2 way impact, and the bowling allrounders really make a bigger difference usually, for mine.

Edit: ****, it's got Gregory 11, Greig 16, and Philander 24 as well. Really vindicating my draft selection policies here, for mine. ❤
 
S

Silver Line

U19 Debutant
Imran and Sobers are in a different league. Kallis is NOT comparable.

Kallis’s true batting avg is 58
Kallis’s true bowling avg is 34
Kallis wicket per inning is 1.07 (272inn/292wkt)
Indicating him as a 5th or 6th option bowler.

Sobers true batting avg is 61
Sobers true bowling avg is 33
Sobers wicket per inning is 1.48 (159inn/235wkt)
Indicating him as a 3rd or 4th option bowler.

sobers from 61-74 had improved as a bowler as well which buffs his even more which kallis never had.

imran true bowling avg is 22
imran wicket per inning is 2.6 (142inn/362wkt)
Indicating him as the leading first choice bowler.
Imran true batting avg is 39

Imran bat avg of approx 40 > Kallis and Sobers bowling avg
  • Imran’s secondary discipline was the greatest among the three.
  • Sobers was a better bowler than Kallis and took more responsibility with the ball for his side. And this is Windies of the past who always had great bowlers at their disposal.
  • Imran bowling is equal to Kallis’s batting, sobers just a (very slightly) ahead than both in primary skills

  • overall evaluation of these points indicate (SOBERS = IMRAN) > KALLIS
Conclusion: Imran was a greater all round player than Kallis. Kallis is a better match for Miller, Procter, Hadlee and Shakib.
 
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shortpitched713

shortpitched713

International Captain
Kallis vs Sobers as bowlers argument is I think a bit disingenuous in a way. Sobers will of course, always be remembered as the greater of the 2 allrounders for sure. But in terms of capability with the ball, I'm not sure Sobers was any better, if at all. He was just needed more, due to his spin capability, and Kallis had to be saved more due to the batting criticality for his side.

The WPM metric really undermines what Kallis was actually capable of when required, but yeah, I can see why he's ranked well below Sobers because of it. Still, due to rarity of genuine batting focused allrounders, don't think Kallis is a bad second pick after Sobers in a Bradmanless draft.
 
trundler

trundler

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ataraxia said:
The gap between Miller and Jadeja being greater than that between Jadeja and Sobers is what one might call something. CW vindicated?
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Hadlee and Kallis being equivalent is a big win for that ranking.
ataraxia said:
Timely reminder that Kallis has more wickets than Sobers, at a better average, in a tougher era for bowling.
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This makes Kallis a better bowler than Garner, Holding and Roberts too.
 
The Sean

The Sean

Cricketer Of The Year
Silver Line said:
Imran and Sobers are in a different league. Kallis is NOT comparable.

Kallis’s true batting avg is 58
Kallis’s true bowling avg is 34
Kallis wicket per inning is 1.07 (272inn/292wkt)
Indicating him as a 5th or 6th option bowler.

Sobers true batting avg is 61
Sobers true bowling avg is 33
Sobers wicket per inning is 1.48 (159inn/235wkt)
Indicating him as a 3rd or 4th option bowler.

sobers from 61-74 had improved as a bowler as well which buffs his even more which kallis never had.

imran true bowling avg is 22
imran wicket per inning is 2.6 (142inn/362wkt)
Indicating him as the leading first choice bowler.
Imran true batting avg is 39

Imran bat avg of approx 40 > Kallis and Sobers bowling avg
  • Imran’s secondary discipline was the greatest among the three.
  • Sobers was a better bowler than Kallis and took more responsibility with the ball for his side. And this is Windies of the past who always had great bowlers at their disposal.
  • Imran bowling is equal to Kallis’s batting, sobers just a (very slightly) ahead than both in primary skills

  • overall evaluation of these points indicate (SOBERS = IMRAN) > KALLIS
Conclusion: Imran was a greater all round player than Kallis. Kallis is a better match for Miller, Procter, Hadlee and Shakib.
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Is the True Average metric taken from a study somewhere or is it your personal view?
 
trundler

trundler

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StephenZA said:
But remember it has no effect for his batting avg which is also inflated...
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It does, obviously but both his batting and bowling averages are inflated to a much greater extent by minnow bashing. But then he only had a minimum of 3 world class batsmen around him at any given point so his real average is 60..
 
trundler

trundler

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And Ponting never played in India in his prime

5 years from now I'll be able to claim Younis didn't have obvious technical deficiencies against lateral movement
 
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S

Silver Line

U19 Debutant
The Sean said:
Is the True Average metric taken from a study somewhere or is it your personal view?
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My ratio is usually 12 Best consecutive years of batting or 10 consecutive Best years of Bowling. Filtered only against the actual competitive sides of their eras.

for instance I take Pak and Ind as competitive sides from 1970 and onwards. SL from 1990 and onwards etc.

the ratio was determined by me upon analysis of how long a bowler and batsman usually lasts on an average in cricket
 
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