Is Tendulkar a choker

[Vroomfondel]

originally posted by tooextracool:

i did not blame him for defeat....my point is he always chokes under pressure.this coupled with the fact that he is more of a flat pitch bully than an actually "great" player makes him overrated .

reply:
i agree, he has been known to get huge scores on flat pitches and not come to the party on dificult tracks

lol

 

[Salamuddin]

originally posted by tooextracool:

i did not blame him for defeat....my point is he always chokes under pressure.this coupled with the fact that he is more of a flat pitch bully than an actually "great" player makes him overrated .

reply:
i agree, he has been known to get huge scores on flat pitches and not come to the party on dificult tracks

Absolute rubbish. Forgot that 169 at Cape Town 97 (plenty of bounce and seam movement there).
England 1st test 1996 ditto and Melbourne 1999.
Port of Spain 2002 and Headingley 2002 were also not flat tracks ; both matches saw crucial Tendulkar centuries that saw India win the game.

As for the 2001 India Australia series, Tendulkar did crack the match winning hundred in the final test with India chasing 391 on a wearing pitch.

 

[maxpower]

how many times do u keep bringing that up??i never contradicted myself and u basically had no clue what u were talking about.just kept bringing up what javed miandad said

instead of a quick reply button, there should be a sarcasm button so i can insert it all over easy for you to understand. you base your opinion batsmen being bully's on flat track, when infact you dont have a clue what they are ? just because some lazy a$$ bowlers who dont know how to swing ball and dont get results does not make it a flat track. you said pitches in AUS, were flat, subcontinent is tainted for having flat tracks. Where in the hell are good wickets left ??? sachin scored most runs in WC in SA, so lets eliminate that country too, where are the good wickets oh please show us some good wickets where lazy bowlers can shine. Maybe all matches should be played in perth.

 

[tooextracool]

i have no real clue what ur talking about but i'll try my best to try and clear some of ur doubts

you base your opinion batsmen being bully's on flat track, when infact you dont have a clue what they are ? just because some lazy a$$ bowlers who dont know how to swing ball and dont get results does not make it a flat track..

i do not base my opinions of flat tracks on batsman performances...i look at how both teams perform on the same pitch and i see the conditions,amount of seam movement of the pitch before deciding whether they are flat or not. so i do know what flat pitches are and dont rely on what javed miandad has to say about the pitch.

you said pitches in AUS, were flat, subcontinent is tainted for having flat tracks. Where in the hell are good wickets left ??? /QUOTE]
yes i did say that pitches in australia were flat this time...but by no means did i say that they are always flat.the wicket for the 5th test against england in sydney was not what would u would call flat.it had uneven bounce and made it very difficult for the aussies to bat on in the 4th innings. and i dont remember ever saying that all pitches in the sub continent were flat!!

sachin scored most runs in WC in SA, so lets eliminate that country too

you do realise that the WC consists of ODI matches dont u?it is regarded by most groundsman that flat pitches=better cricket in ODIs.however pitches in SA for tests are not necessarily flat and in fact some of the ODI matches in the WC(australia vs india in the league stages,eng vs aus,aus vs sl were not flat wickets)

where are the good wickets oh please show us some good wickets where lazy bowlers can shine

i dont know which bowlers u are referring to here and i dont think u could call any fast bowler lazy because he has to run in 10-15 yrds every ball.

 

[Sehwag309]

Copy/Paste from another forum

My top 10 Sachin Tendulkar moments.

1. 1989 Sialkot. Getting hit on the nose by Waqar on 1 and then making a 50 to save India from a precarious position of 38/4.

2. 1990 Old Trafford. Saving the match for India, whilst making his first ever test 100.

3. 1998 Chennai. 155*(191)- The start of Warne's nightmare.(204* from 192 balls was the prelude)

4. 1998 Sharjah. Operation Desert Storm followed by another 100 in the final on his birthday.

5. 2002 Headingley. In the company of Ganguly, he massacres England in fading light, scoring 40 runs in 20 balls. Match score 193.

6. 1994 Eden Park. Sent opening for the first time in ODIs, he scores 82 from just 49 balls.

7. 1998 Dhaka. Takes Mushtaq Ahmed and Saqlain Mushtaq apart in the first final of the Independence Cup. Ends up with 95 from 78 balls with 5 sixes.

8. 1998 Dhaka. Takes India from 8/2 to 307 scoring 141 against Australia. Then takes 4/41 to ensure semi-final berth for India in the inaugral ICC Cup.

9. 2001 Calcutta. Takes 3/10 as India complete a dream win over the Aussies. His wickets- Hayden,Gilchrist and Warne(fooled by a wrong un)

10. 2003 Centurion. Wasim,Waqar and Shoaib are carted to all corners. 98 from 75 balls.

Some great knocks by Sachin in losing causes. Thank you rest of the 90s team.

1. 1992 Perth. At 18, makes 114 on a bouncy, fiery Perth track. 2nd highest score-43 from number 10.

2. 1996 Birmingham. In seaming conditions, scores 122 in the 2nd innings. 2nd highest score- 18

3. 1996 Newlands. Along with Azhar, scripts one of the most famous counter attacking partnerships of all time. Averts follow on scoring 169. (India were 58/5 when these two got together)

4. 1998 Bangalore. Blasts his favourite opponents by scoring 177. India collapse in 2nd innings and lose.

5. 1999 Wellington. Brilliant knock of 113 in the 2nd innings, after India were facing a huge deficit. NZ chase 215, after being 75/5.

6. 1999 Chennai. 136 in a total of 259. No need to say anything about this.

 

[shankar]

I was searching something on Google when I came across this absolutely brilliant analysis: http://www.sportnetwork.net/main/s119/st48052.htm
(old article though maybe you guys have already seen it)
I am deeply saddened after reading it though. He needs a looong break from cricket and a few sessions with gavaskar to iron out the flaws and get back to his best. The sad part is while he is going through this personal struggle he's got idiot fan(atic)s baying for his blood everytime he fails, fans to whom he's given so many great knocks to savour. With the strong batting line-up India have Sachin can afford to experiment in the middle, to trust his instincts...But there's so much pressure on him that he has to perform every time and cant afford to experiment

 

[Adamc]

He [Tendulkar] needs a looong break from cricket and a few sessions with gavaskar to iron out the flaws and get back to his best.

And he will get one. India aren't due to play another Test until October...!

 

[Raj123]

yea at 254/6 chasing 270 it was not a question of other staying with him but him staying with others

you obviously havent seen(or heard) the accomplishments of the indian tail.

i seem to remember the recent 2nd odi match where he failed to finish it off yet again.

oh ya he is such a choker, he cant even create world records in every match he plays.

this coupled with the fact that he is more of a flat pitch bully than an actually "great" player makes him overrated

see now you've stepped into ridicule. bradman, waugh, warne, lara, hadlee, viv( and probably every international cricketers(past and present) )have endorsed him to be one of the greatest batsman of all time, so TBH i couldnt care less what a "tooextracool" thinks about him.

 

[shankar]

About Tendulkar not finishing off matches in ODI's : He's an opener!! How many openers consistently finish off games for their team?

 

[marc71178]

Good point there - next he'll be blamed for not finishing it off when India bat first!

 

[tooextracool]

you obviously havent seen(or heard) the accomplishments of the indian tail..

yes but thats not an excuse to get out without even giving the tail a chance. 16 runs, u could do that with danny morrison at the other end if u applied urself let alone with 4 wickets

see now you've stepped into ridicule. bradman, waugh, warne, lara, hadlee, viv( and probably every international cricketers(past and present) )have endorsed him to be one of the greatest batsman of all time, so TBH i couldnt care less what a "tooextracool" thinks about him.

and perhaps thats why i use the term "overrated"

 

[tooextracool]

About Tendulkar not finishing off matches in ODI's : He's an opener!! How many openers consistently finish off games for their team?

right but when india is 5 wickets down and he has 80-90 odd on the board, the whole teams depending on him,hes the set batsman and its his job to go on and finish the job.for me though his most significant problem is that he fails under pressure.

 

[Raj123]

and perhaps thats why i use the term "overrated"

so everyone has misjudged him except you. aah this makes perfect sence!

he has 80-90 odd on the board

didnt he score 141 in the match you are talking about.

 

[tooextracool]

so everyone has misjudged him except you. aah this makes perfect sence!.

actually there are quite a few people that share the same opinion as i do. u just chose to pick the ones that dont.

didnt he score 141 in the match you are talking about.

how does that matter?it doesnt matter if you're 100 or 200...the fact is u have to finish the job for the team. im sure there were many other players in the middle who actually gave away their wicket(trying to go for the big shots) just so that tendulkar could play his normal game and bat till the end. instead he chooses not to.

 

[Raj123]

actually there are quite a few people that share the same opinion as i do. u just chose to pick the ones that dont.

it would be interesting to see what names you can comeup with.

how does that matter?it doesnt matter if you're 100 or 200...the fact is u have to finish the job for the team

only no one has ever scored a 200.

im sure there were many other players in the middle who actually gave away their wicket(trying to go for the big shots) just so that tendulkar could play his normal game and bat till the end. instead he chooses not to.

SR Tendulkar c Abdul Razzaq b Shoaib Malik 141 135 17 1
VVS Laxman lbw b Mohammad Sami 4 7 0 0
*SC Ganguly st Moin Khan b Shahid Afridi 15 38 1 0
+R Dravid b Mohammad Sami 36 45 2 0
Yuvraj Singh c Shabbir Ahmed b Shahid Afridi 19 20 2 0
M Kaif c Shoaib Malik b Shoaib Akhtar 7 9 0 0

may be you should try that again. who exactly was playing their normal game and who was playing out of their skin?

 

[shankar]

yes but thats not an excuse to get out without even giving the tail a chance. 16 runs, u could do that with danny morrison at the other end if u applied urself let alone with 4 wickets

Nobody who's seen that innings would say that it was a problem of application. He had severe back spasms and was struggling towards the end of his innings. At 80/5 he doesn't feel any pressure, but with 17 runs to win after just hitting 2 boundaries, he cant withstand the pressure and chokes?

 

[maxpower]

i do not base my opinions of flat tracks on batsman performances...i look at how both teams perform on the same pitch and i see the conditions,amount of seam movement of the pitch before deciding whether they are flat or not. so i do know what flat pitches are and dont rely on what javed miandad has to say about the pitch.

do you take bowler's ability, craft and effort while bowling on these flat tracks when you analyze these flat tracks ??? could it be that some track appear flat, maybe because the bowlers simple dont have the ability or are not applying themselves enough, and instead of taking credit away from batsmen for doing hard work, discredit the bowlers instead of not doing the work.

so how were the track for the Ind Vs Pak test series ?? flat or not ?

 

[Anil]

Maybe all matches should be played in perth.

actually sachin had a superb century in perth if my memory is right, so by definition, perth has to be a flat track, right?

 

[marc71178]

yes but thats not an excuse to get out without even giving the tail a chance.

And if he'd got out like the rest of the batsmen had done the match would've been long gone!

How you can blame him for this sort of thing when the rest of the top order failed to amke a mark is crazy IMO.

 

[marc71178]

SR Tendulkar c Abdul Razzaq b Shoaib Malik 141 135 17 1
VVS Laxman lbw b Mohammad Sami 4 7 0 0
*SC Ganguly st Moin Khan b Shahid Afridi 15 38 1 0
+R Dravid b Mohammad Sami 36 45 2 0
Yuvraj Singh c Shabbir Ahmed b Shahid Afridi 19 20 2 0
M Kaif c Shoaib Malik b Shoaib Akhtar 7 9 0 0

When you look at the scorecard, it's obvious that Tendulkar must take all the blame for the defeat.