Is Shivnarine Chanderpaul an ATG test batsman?

[CricketFan90s]

Which All Time XI can beat this West Indies Test XI ?
1) Chris Gayle-5 Overs
2) Gordon Greenidge
3) Viv Richards
4) Brian Lara
5) Clive Lloyd*
6) Gary Sobers-17 Overs
7) Jeff Dujon+
8) Malcolm Marshall-17 Overs
9) Michael Holding-16 Overs
10) Joel Garner-17 Overs
11) Curtly Ambrose-18 Overs
-----------
90 Overs per day can any Team survive a day against Marshall, Garner, Holding, Ambrose, Sobers and Gayle ?
-----------

Can Chanderpaul a better replacement to Clive Lloyd ?

 

[Slifer]

I agree, we've stayed on topic for far too long.

In a neutral location or Australia, the Aus Xi would likely win. In the WI, I'll give the edge to the WI.

 

[CricketFan90s]

In a neutral location or Australia, the Aus Xi would likely win. In the WI, I'll give the edge to the WI.

It is still tough for Australia I believe. Can you share an Australia XI that can beat the West Indies XI I posted ?

 

[CricketFan90s]

Curtly Ambrose - 405 Wkts - 20.99 Avg - 54.5 SR - 2.30 Econ
Malcolm Marshall - 376 Wkts - 20.94 Avg - 46.7 SR - 2.68 Econ
Joel Garner - 294 Wkts - 21.42 Avg - 51.53 SR - 2.49 Econ (Including WSC)
Michael Holding - 284 Wkts - 23.61 Avg - 50.43 SR - 2.81 Econ (Including WSC)
Gary Sobers - 235 Wkts - 34.03 Avg - 91.9 SR - 2.22 Econ
Chris Gayle - 73 Wkts - 42.73 Avg - 97.3 SR - 2.63 Econ

I don't think any Countries All Time XI including Australia XI can beat this bowling lineup

 

[Kenneth Viljoen]

Curtly Ambrose - 405 Wkts - 20.99 Avg - 54.5 SR - 2.30 Econ
Malcolm Marshall - 376 Wkts - 20.94 Avg - 46.7 SR - 2.68 Econ
Joel Garner - 294 Wkts - 21.42 Avg - 51.53 SR - 2.49 Econ (Including WSC)
Michael Holding - 284 Wkts - 23.61 Avg - 50.43 SR - 2.81 Econ (Including WSC)
Gary Sobers - 235 Wkts - 34.03 Avg - 91.9 SR - 2.22 Econ
Chris Gayle - 73 Wkts - 42.73 Avg - 97.3 SR - 2.63 Econ

I don't think any Countries All Time XI including Australia XI can beat this bowling lineup

Stick to the topic , there's more to cricket than arguing about which team is the greatest or which cricketer is the greatest, it's been done a million times .

 

[CricketFan90s]

In 1986 England in West Indies : Blackwash 5-0

Player	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
J Garner (WI)	5	10	156.1	30	436	27	4/43	7/58	16.14	2.79	34.7	0	0
MD Marshall (WI)	5	10	169.3	36	482	27	4/38	8/132	17.85	2.84	37.6	0	0
BP Patterson (WI)	5	10	118.1	19	426	19	4/30	7/74	22.42	3.60	37.3	0	0
MA Holding (WI)	4	8	102.4	17	385	16	3/47	5/84	24.06	3.75	38.5	0	0

RA Harper (WI)

2

2

38.0

15

55

4

3/10

4/55

13.75

1.44

57.0

0

0

In 1984 West Indies in England : Blackwash 5-0

Player	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
J Garner (WI)	5	10	217.5	60	540	29	5/55	9/108	18.62	2.47	45.0	1	0
MD Marshall (WI)	4	8	167.4	50	437	24	7/53	8/170	18.20	2.60	41.9	3	0

MA Holding (WI)

4

8

122.2

24

343

15

5/43

7/98

22.86

2.80

48.9

1

0

RA Harper (WI)

5

10

128.4

47

276

13

6/57

6/90

21.23

2.14

59.3

1

0

EAE Baptiste (WI)

5

9

125.0

39

265

8

3/31

3/60

33.12

2.12

93.7

0

0

In an All Time XI if there is Garner, Marshall, Holding, Ambrose (replacing Patterson or Baptiste), Sobers and Gayle (replacing Harper) the Team is very deadly.

 

[CricketFan90s]

Stick to the topic , there's more to cricket than arguing about which team is the greatest or which cricketer is the greatest, it's been done a million times .

This topic is now stinking, Chanderpaul doesn't deserve too much attention. give the answer i asked Chanderpaul or Clive Lloyd at No 5 ?

 

[Sunil1z]

This topic is now stinking, Chanderpaul doesn't deserve too much attention. give the answer i asked Chanderpaul or Clive Lloyd at No 5 ?

The answer to this question is : whether Viv would captain or Lloyd ?

 

[CricketFan90s]

The answer to this question is : whether Viv would captain or Lloyd ?

I believe West Indies Team will benefit if they have Clive Lloyd compared to Chanderpaul in this XI.
Clive Lloyd as Captain and Viv Richards as Vice Captain will benefit the Team due to Strong Leadership

 

[Spark]

Yeah look I'm partial to a good derail or two but this one is a bit too blatant.

 

[honestbharani]

Enough of Chanderpaul

so close the thread?

 

[CricketFan90s]

so close the thread?

I don’t mean closing it just changed the topic to whether he will be in the All time West Indies XI or not ?

 

[srbhkshk]

My 2 cents is that just because he is selfish doesn't make him not an ATG, it just makes him a selfish ATG.

In my mind this is somewhat linked to the not-out debates that occasionally pops up here, maybe people who stay not out too often don't quite have averages as valuable as the ones who don't - but it doesn't in any way make them less of a quality batsman. You still need to score 50 runs without getting out to get an average of 50 - with or without not outs.

 

[Socerer 01]

yeah having thought about it after several people here pointed it out I do think Shiv likely makes most XIs in any era. may have to reassess my opinion of him

 

[Socerer 01]

This topic is now stinking, Chanderpaul doesn't deserve too much attention. give the answer i asked Chanderpaul or Clive Lloyd at No 5 ?

Enough of Chanderpaul want to know if the All time XI of West Indies and Australia clash who will win ?

how dare people stick to the topic of the thread and not produce content for my next youtube video

 

[CricketFan90s]

how dare people stick to the topic of the thread and not produce content for my next youtube video

It’s not the YouTube video it’s just a curiosity to look back at a Teams history and want to see who is their best XI.

 

[Socerer 01]

It’s not the YouTube video it’s just a curiosity to look back at a Teams history and want to see who is their best XI.

make a post in the atg team thread then, ez

 

[Bolo.]

If anything CW loves Chanderpaul so it can feel smug about liking an unpopular player. I like dour batsman I am very smart.

I'd rather have Laxman or Clarke in my side to bat 5/6 even if they were 'inferior' batsmen. No one thinks those guys are ATGs so this thread is a real head scratcher.

By all means, challenge CW consensus opinions. Mocking them in this way is doing exactly what you are accusing CW of.

There is also the fact that you are wrong. I'd be surprised if 1% of cricketweb regular posters don't think he would have been better if he had more gas at the same average, bearing in mind his team and batting position. People who regard him as an ATG look at him as a 50+ 20 year bat, and that is fine if you want to set the bar at that point*. You could reasonably set the bar far lower than this... he is a better bat than 98% (or whatever) of players who have had a knock in tests. Nobody is claiming he is a Viv, whatever his stats say.

*As long as you realise that he was utterly rubbish within the context of these stats.

 

[trundler]

By all means, challenge CW consensus opinions. Mocking them in this way is doing exactly what you are accusing CW of.

There is also the fact that you are wrong. I'd be surprised if 1% of cricketweb regular posters don't think he would have been better if he had more gas at the same average, bearing in mind his team and batting position. People who regard him as an ATG look at him as a 50+ 20 year bat, and that is fine if you want to set the bar at that point*. You could reasonably set the bar far lower than this... he is a better bat than 98% (or whatever) of players who have had a knock in tests. Nobody is claiming he is a Viv, whatever his stats say.

*As long as you realise that he was utterly rubbish within the context of these stats.

I'll admit I was pushing back at certain posters saying not rating Chanderpaul as ATG is something contrarian nerds say. That is just obnoxious sanctimony and annoys me greatly. You're on a cricket forum, no ****ing wonder people nitpick players. And it's not a consensus position here but people genuinely do argue that strike rate is irrelevant altogether (hence Viv being retrospectively underrated by some). I've never said that Shiv's not an exceptional player, just that his stats do flatter him massively. And the way he got em certainly wasn't ATG worthy for me.

 

[Flem274*]

I'll admit I was pushing back at certain posters saying not rating Chanderpaul as ATG is something contrarian nerds say. That is just obnoxious sanctimony and annoys me greatly. You're on a cricket forum, no ****ing wonder people nitpick players. And it's not a consensus position here but people genuinely do argue that strike rate is irrelevant altogether (hence Viv being retrospectively underrated by some). I've never said that Shiv's not an exceptional player, just that his stats do flatter him massively. And the way he got em certainly wasn't ATG worthy for me.

G'day Trundler.

Settle down on the projection there.