Is Shivnarine Chanderpaul an ATG test batsman?

[PlayerComparisons]

Scored 11000+ runs at an average of 50+ over 160+ tests over 20+ years

 

[Godard]

Nah, poor records in Aus, SA and Pak, plus scored majority of his runs in one of the easiest eras for batting.

 

[Prince EWS]

This probably says more about where you draw the line on ATG than it does about where you put Chanders.

I'm not a big gatekeeper on this definition so I'd say yes. There are probably people who rate him higher than I do who'd say no though.

You're asking two completely different questions at once.

 

[trundler]

Definite no for me because I both have a higher standard and regard Chanderpaul as a 47 average batter.

 

[Godard]

This probably says more about where you draw the line on ATG than it does about where you put Chanders.

I'm not a big gatekeeper on this definition so I'd say yes. There are probably people who rate him higher than I do who'd say no though.

You're asking two completely different questions at once.

An ATG batsmen can’t have as poor records as Chanderpaul does in three diff major nations, that too while batting in the easiest era for batting

 

[Howe_zat]

This probably says more about where you draw the line on ATG than it does about where you put Chanders.

Starting these threads with the premise that 'ATG' is even an actual thing, which it isn't, is going to mean this is pretty much the only answer. It's just not a well-defined question.

Is Chanderpaul entropy?

Is Chanderpaul sadness?

 

[Slifer]

Fck no and this coming from a rabid West Indian supporter. He's probably a great or ATVG. Among West Indians it goes more or less like this:

ATG: Viv, Lara, Sobers, Headley
Great: Weekes, Walcott, Worrell
Great/Very Good: Kanhai, Lloyd, Shiv, Greenidge, Hunte

Even among the third tier I'd put him behind everyone except maybe Hunte. Still, Shiv was an excellent servant for West Indian cricket and I wish more of our batsmen would put in the type of hours Shiv used to into when training.

 

[Coronis]

Fck no and this coming from a rabid West Indian supporter. He's probably a great or ATVG. Among West Indians it goes more or less like this:

ATG: Viv, Lara, Sobers, Headley
Great: Weekes, Walcott, Worrell
Great/Very Good: Kanhai, Lloyd, Shiv, Greenidge, Hunte

Even among the third tier I'd put him behind everyone except maybe Hunte. Still, Shiv was an excellent servant for West Indian cricket and I wish more of our batsmen would put in the type of hours Shiv used to into when training.

Harsh to place him a tier below the W’s imo.

 

[Slifer]

Harsh to place him a tier below the W’s imo.

I know it's harsh maybe he belongs on their level but I honestly just can't rate Shiv above the likes of Kanhai and Lloyd. Maybe move those two up and Weekes and Worrell down. Shiv isn't better than Walcott though imo

 

[Flem274*]

He's a great player and nerds are just gonna have to take it.

 

[trundler]

Nah, nerds are the one who rate him higher than is warranted because they realised he has a pretty average at the end of his career.

 

[Flem274*]

Nah, nerds are the one who rate him higher than is warranted because they realised he has a pretty average at the end of his career.

mmhmm can't be nerds that go over his averages by country, not outs and classify him a 47 average batsman based on...what?

 

[trundler]

mmhmm can't be nerds that go over his averages by country, not outs and classify him a 47 average batsman based on...what?

Never said that's why I think his average flatters him. It's his overt selfishness and red ink chasing that boosts his average. If Lloyd batted like Shiv he'd average 50+ but he'd have contributed less to his team and they're both about par for me.

 

[OverratedSanity]

This probably says more about where you draw the line on ATG than it does about where you put Chanders.

Pretty much.

If the question is how highly do I rate Chanders, I think I'd probably put him on the lower end of the top 10 WI batsmen of all time. Says more about WI's historical strength when it comes to producing incredible batsmen.

 

[trundler]

Headley to Shiv is a pretty mean unbroken streak of exceptional batsmen though, as much as I think Shiv is overrated by nerds.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Shiv, an ATG?

Nah, he’s not even our country’s greatest batsman (Rohan Babulall Kanhai has that title.)

 

[BazBall21]

He was obviously better than Shiv but tbf Sanga also has a poor record in three different major nations. India, South Africa and WI. With the same logic, he's not an ATG either. I'd say Shiv is a borderline in answer to the question. Think he is rated a little lower on here compared to contemporaries than he should be but he does have a few caveats.

 

[Prince EWS]

An ATG batsmen can’t have as poor records as Chanderpaul does in three diff major nations, that too while batting in the easiest era for batting

Yes they can.

 

[Pothas]

Has the obsession with 'they failed in country x' gotten worse? I feel like it has.

 

[Prince EWS]

Has the obsession with 'they failed in country x' gotten worse? I feel like it has.

There was a concerted push against it a few years ago and it died down for a while, but I think the return of subshakerz has brought this kind of analysis by checklist back into vogue.