Is Kane Williamson an ATG Test Batsman?

[shortpitched713]

It’s pretty impressive NZ have even produced such a good batsman with their population and resources. Probably won’t see another NZ bat of this quality so got to enjoy him while he’s still playing.

This is a terrible argument. Small nations (Netherlands, Uruguay, Portugal, etc.) are incredibly good at football over many decades, and same applies for cricket. Yes, they'll have their downyears sure, but it's not the population that stops a country from being good.

It's when it drops out of interest for the youth to pick up, and it starts dropping in it's place in the overall consciousness/culture of a place that you should really worry. New Zealand isn't going that way, as far as I'm aware.

 

[ashley bach]

Yes, he is not an ATG. Sorry Kiwi fans.

Below names can’t be considered ATG in Tests:-

Kane Williamson
Younis Khan
Virender Sehwag
Ravichandran Ashwin
Michael Clarke

@RossTaylorsBox

Your twin brother is not a kiwi?

 

[honestbharani]

@RossTaylorsBox

Your twin brother is not a kiwi?

TBF he only listed Big Daddy Kane there as a not-ATG. Maybe Ross Taylor did make the list of ATGs.

 

[Coronis]

This is a terrible argument. Small nations (Netherlands, Uruguay, Portugal, etc.) are incredibly good at football over many decades, and same applies for cricket. Yes, they'll have their downyears sure, but it's not the population that stops a country from being good.

It's when it drops out of interest for the youth to pick up, and it starts dropping in it's place in the overall consciousness/culture of a place that you should really worry. New Zealand isn't going that way, as far as I'm aware.

It does of course, make it more unlikely though. Its unsurprising that India especially has come to the forefront in recent years, not just because of the population, but the rabid fanbase. I’m sure a much higher percentage of Indian kids would dream to be a cricket star than many of the other countries.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

I dont think that is necessarily inconsistent though? 6th best bat he has seen and 25th best bowler can still make someone the very best as an allruonder, no?

Kallis wouldn't be the 25th best bowler though no?

And a quality slip fielder

 

[Thala_0710]

And a quality slip fielder

That's true, though he only mentioned the 13k runs and 300 wkts while making his argument

 

[kyear2]

That's true, though he only mentioned the 13k runs and 300 wkts while making his argument

That's not the case, the full quote speaks to the 200 catches as well.

I'll see if I can find it.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

It’s pretty impressive NZ have even produced such a good batsman with their population and resources. Probably won’t see another NZ bat of this quality so got to enjoy him while he’s still playing.

Really?

 

[RMBolton]

This is a terrible argument. Small nations (Netherlands, Uruguay, Portugal, etc.) are incredibly good at football over many decades, and same applies for cricket. Yes, they'll have their downyears sure, but it's not the population that stops a country from being good.

It's when it drops out of interest for the youth to pick up, and it starts dropping in it's place in the overall consciousness/culture of a place that you should really worry. New Zealand isn't going that way, as far as I'm aware.

Even if you apply a lenient definition (like, say, 5000 runs at 40+), the numbers are telling.

87 batsmen have scored 5000+ runs averaging 40+. New Zealand has not only produced the fewest (4), New Zealand is the only one of the first 8 Test nations which has produced less than 5. South Africa is next at 6, but they have excuses for that. There is then a contrast with the West Indies: with a similar population, they've produced 11 of these batsmen, nearly triple the number NZ has produced.

 

[Coronis]

Even if you apply a lenient definition (like, say, 5000 runs at 40+), the numbers are telling.

87 batsmen have scored 5000+ runs averaging 40+. New Zealand has not only produced the fewest (4), New Zealand is the only one of the first 8 Test nations which has produced less than 5. South Africa is next at 6, but they have excuses for that. There is then a contrast with the West Indies: with a similar population, they've produced 11 of these batsmen, nearly triple the number NZ has produced.

So you’re actually arguing the opposite then?

 

[Prince EWS]

So you’re actually arguing the opposite then?

@TheJediBrah

 

[DrWolverine]

Kane Williamson is a slightly better and more popular version of Mahela Jayawardene. Both aren’t ATGs.

 

[Gob]

I think kane is a small atg. Someone like josep root is a medium size atg where someone like viv is a big atg know what I'm saying

 

[Gob]

Bradman is a huge atg know what I'm saying

 

[RMBolton]

So you’re actually arguing the opposite then?

I'm not really sure, actually.

Of those 87, the West Indies & India have both produced 11. At the same time, New Zealand is a bit weird because even though it is an established Test nation, it still feels emergent in some aspects. An example of this is that NZ remains the only one of those original 8 Test nations to not have produced a member of the 10,000 Test Runs Club. Should he get there, Kane Williamson would be the first.

Now, as to whether he's an ATG or not, no he isn't. Maybe a tier or so below that, certainly one of the greats of this generation, but in a NZ context, Williamson is to batting what Hadlee was (& continues to be) in bowling.

 

[shortpitched713]

Bradman is a huge atg know what I'm saying

 

[Coronis]

All time gronk

 

[Daemon]

I think kane is a small atg. Someone like josep root is a medium size atg where someone like viv is a big atg know what I'm saying

Bradman is a huge atg know what I'm saying

 

[Fuller Pilch]

At the same time, New Zealand is a bit weird because even though it is an established Test nation, it still feels emergent in some aspects. An example of this is that NZ remains the only one of those original 8 Test nations to not have produced a member of the 10,000 Test Runs Club. Should he get there, Kane Williamson would be the first.

NZ was amateur for a very long time and then had poor facilities and limited number of tests.
For many years they would play a handful of 1st class matches and some club cricket and then have to face elite opposition.
Obviously high quality NZ batsmen like Donnelly, Sutcliffe, Turner, Richardson, and Ryder played far few tests for different reasons to reach 5,000 runs.

What is far weirder is that England is the only one of the original 8 test nations yet to produce an ATG ODI bowler.

 

[Gob]

NZ was amateur for a very long time and then had poor facilities and limited number of tests.
For many years they would play a handful of 1st class matches and some club cricket and then have to face elite opposition.
Obviously high quality NZ batsmen like Donnelly, Sutcliffe, Turner, Richardson, and Ryder played far few tests for different reasons to reach 5,000 runs.

What is far weirder is that England is the only one of the original 8 test nations yet to produce an ATG ODI bowler.

andy caddick says hi