Is Ashwin an ATG spinner / player?

[Bolo.]

I am not arguing Ashwin is rubbish in SENA. He has been poor in SA, decent in England and good recently in Australia. I also think he was robbed of a good opportunity to get a standout performance in England in 2021 when he was not selected.

Just arguing his record as it stands shows a conspicuous lack of standout away performances in SENA that you would need to qualify as an ATG. I think we agree. The fifer thing is just a signpost of wicket taking ability. Even a long spell one would be at least something to hold your hat on.

In SENA, his role in a team with excellent quicks, is not to have standout performances. It is to have consistently good ones. Admittedly, he hasn't had very consistently good ones, but that is called being a finger spinner in SENA. Even Murali didn't manage this.

I'm less opposed to analysis by checklist than most posters on this site. I have no problem with you disqualifying a guy who averaged almost 40 in SENA on this basis. I might do it myself. Honestly, I think that almost everyone, even those who think that Ashwin is an ATG, would not be too opposed to it. People just get annoyed by the rigidity with which you do it, and the degree with which you beat particular players for micro statistical flaws in their records. I say this as a person for whom stats are >>> observations, so I really should be on your team.

 

[honestbharani]

so I really should be on your team.

no one really should though.

 

[trundler]

. I say this as a person for whom stats are >>> observations, so I really should be on your team.

He also claims peer reputation is hugely important for rating cricketers because we shouldn't be reading stats off a spreadsheet so it really is the worst of both worlds.


That said, the only fan base he hasn't pissed off so far is the Aussies and I'm very keen to see how that will unfold.

 

[honestbharani]

He also claims peer reputation is hugely important for rating cricketers because we shouldn't be reading stats off a spreadsheet so it really is the worst of both worlds.


That said, the only fan base he hasn't pissed off so far is the Aussies and I'm very keen to see how that will unfold.

Wait for the Pak tour of Aus

 

[subshakerz]

Have you considered that rating a handful of games over the vast majority is a stupid idea for any sensible fan? Or that the reason that there are only a handful of opportunities for spinners to seal a game in SENA is largely down to SENA pitches being doctored against spinners and for pacers?

No, I am not basing it entirely off that. But standout performances are important.

In SENA, his role in a team with excellent quicks, is not to have standout performances. It is to have consistently good ones. Admittedly, he hasn't had very consistently good ones, but that is called being a finger spinner in SENA. Even Murali didn't manage this.

I'm less opposed to analysis by checklist than most posters on this site. I have no problem with you disqualifying a guy who averaged almost 40 in SENA on this basis. I might do it myself. Honestly, I think that almost everyone, even those who think that Ashwin is an ATG, would not be too opposed to it. People just get annoyed by the rigidity with which you do it, and the degree with which you beat particular players for micro statistical flaws in their records. I say this as a person for whom stats are >>> observations, so I really should be on your team.

We all do 'analysis by checklist' to a certain extent, but this really isn't that case. I treat it the same as I would for a bat who never scored a ton in SENA and posters hype up as an ATG. It's a red flag.

 

[subshakerz]

Wait for the Pak tour of Aus

I dont support Pakistan any more.

 

[CricAddict]

@subshakerz hope you are not a teacher irl. You will be such a tough taskmaster for the kids. If a kid excels in cricket, you will also ask him to top the grades in studies (not just one subject, all the subjects) and vice-versa for you to rate any kid.

 

[honestbharani]

@subshakerz hope you are not a teacher irl. You will be such a tough taskmaster for the kids. If a kid excels in cricket, you will also ask him to top the grades in studies (not just one subject, all the subjects) and vice-versa for you to rate any kid.

Nah.. he will decide if he likes the kid or not and then grade based on that.

 

[Shri]

@subshakerz hope you are not a teacher irl. You will be such a tough taskmaster for the kids. If a kid excels in cricket, you will also ask him to top the grades in studies (not just one subject, all the subjects) and vice-versa for you to rate any kid.

if he is a teacher irl none of his students will pass statistics

 

[Daemon]

Let me be more charitable here then.

Ashwin in the first half of his career genuinely struggled as an overseas bowler. However, he did improve as he went on, adding more skills and use of bounce and angles from the crease, and this coincided with India becoming a better team. He was decent overall in England and good in Australia towards the end. And it is fair to say that the team management should have showed him more faith in some of these tours. He was also unlucky that several of his better performances coincided with India losing too.

While he still struggled in places like SA and in certain key match situations when he should have run through a team away from India, overall it is also fair to say that more confidence in him as was the case with other champion spinners could have yielded better results. Overall, his away record may deny him the ATG title but he was still a valuable away member for India in their glory years.

Your only good post in this thread

 

[Coronis]

fwiw Ashwin is definitely an ATG spinner. Not going to get into this argument about (what is it about again?) but yes he is.

 

[Silver Line]

What do you expect from a P..........

He'd be the last people to admit that Ashwin is a borderline ATG bowler

borderline atg all rounder i can agree, but not as a bowler

 

[Shri]

listen to me, you are dumber in this dumb & dumber duo

 

[Xix2565]

No, I am not basing it entirely off that. But standout performances are important.

Well then if you aren't basing it all on that then why is it the only argument you're making here? And this doesn't address the second part of my post regarding conditions.

 

[subshakerz]

Well then if you aren't basing it all on that then why is it the only argument you're making here? And this doesn't address the second part of my post regarding conditions.

Because ATG is a very high standard so even one of these criteria can't be unfulfilled. Capiche?

 

[subshakerz]

Your only good post in this thread

Yes and until you, nobody acknowledged my olive branch. What does that say about who is stubborn and who is not?

if he is a teacher irl none of his students will pass statistics

Strangely enough I happen to be a very lenient teacher in real life.

 

[Coronis]

Strangely enough I happen to be a very lenient teacher in real life.

Ah so you need an outlet to vent all that pent up teacher frustration. We’re happy to help.

 

[Xix2565]

Because ATG is a very high standard so even one of these criteria can't be unfulfilled. Capiche?

Given the amount of players who get spoken of as ATGs, I doubt that it's as high as you want to claim. Hence why people are calling it out as ridiculous.

 

[ZK$]

Which spinners other than Murali and Warne from the last 50 years are ATG bowlers?

 

[Daemon]

Yes and until you, nobody acknowledged my olive branch. What does that say about who is stubborn and who is not?

you're not stubborn just a bit dense