India Or Pakistan

[Sanz]

who had the following seasons before making his debut:
1978-79 (India) 1 1 0 38 38 38.00 0 0 0
1980-81 (India) 7 12 1 415 166 37.72 1 2 2
1981-82 (India) 8 12 1 527 205* 47.90 1 2 1
1982-83 (India) 6 10 2 402 107* 50.25 1 2 3
1983-84 (India) 9 16 1 464 150 30.93 1 2 12
1984-85 (India) 4 5 0 114 84 22.80 0 1 3
1985-86 (India) 7 11 1 691 231 69.10 3 2 4
1986 (England) 5 7 0 301 116 43.00 1 2 1
1986-87 (India) 12 15 1 882 131 63.00 5

i dont think ever had a poor season in county record before he made his debut, and he was averaging about 63 in Fc cricket.

Dude, as of now the next Bradman aka Graeme hick and the ordinary FTB Raman Lamba have similar First class average.
Lamba
Batting & Fielding 121 175 12 8776 320 53.84 31 27 60 0
Hick
Batting & Fielding 470 777 76 37505 405* 53.50 126 142 596 0

Lamba scoring a century every 3.9 innings, whereas hick scoring a century every 3.7 innings.

 

[Sparky]

err how many innings there 10 ?? out of 400+ matches ?? Really some record..wow I am impressed. Not to forget that most of the innings are post his international debut, the hype bubble was burst by then.
Oh and btw if you have not noticed, none of those attacks are international class despite the presence of names like Donald, Wasim, Waqar, Ambrose, Walsh etc. or are you telling us that Hick faced a combined attack of Walsh,Ambrose, Wasim,Waqar,Hick together in one single match ??

The problem with Hick wasn't that he couldn't deal with the worlds best bowlers. He obviously could as he faced most of them in county cricket at one time or another with success. His ability is/was without question.
What he couldn't deal with was the mental pressure that comes with international cricket plus the level of expectation on him. His decision making was affected by his lack of bottle. It adds up to him not being a good international cricketer but as far as pure cricketing ability is concerned he was as good as any of his contempories.

As for India-Pakistan, I'm hoping for a draw. I think both countries deserve massive praise for actually getting the series on at all so I would be happy with honours even.

 

[Sanz]

no unfortunately i cant, ive looked all over the net but theres no article about any of the interviews that happened in 97-98. nonetheless even you would have heard the number of times ramiz raja has called inzamam better than tendulkar?
well all i can say is that they;ve all added to the hype that he doesnt deserve. and they will fall flat on their faces if he doesnt perform sooner or later. imran really has made some ludicrous comments in the past, such as inzy being as good as richards and being the best player of fast bowlers hes seen since richards and what not.

Shut up now. You clearly can not back your statement up that Akram said about Inzi being better than Sachin, and now you are making another claim about Rameez Raja saying the same thing. Even though Rameez is a very ordinary cricketer with very limited knowledge of the game, I dont recollect Rameez ever saying that. He is too articulate to make a statement like that.
Please dont make ridiculous claims about Imran saying Inzi better than Richards or something

so whats his average when you remove non test class opposition?

What do you mean non-test class opposition. with the way NZ is playing against australia right now, it seems they are a non-test class opposition. Dont talk sh!t. A test nation is a test nation.

 

[honestbharani]

what do you expect? how many of other people got to watch him bat in domestic cricket where he made almost all of his impact?




i really dont think that all those people have said that he has the potential to be greats, they've merely said that hes got potential to be good, hence the award. hick was one of wisden's 5 players of the year in 1986, if that says something. i really dont see how someone whos never accomplished anything in either form of the game deserves to be hyped up, i dont deny that hick shouldnt have been hyped up that much either, personally i dont hype up players unless they perform, but seriously if someone is averaging 63 in domestic cricket after an extended run(5-6 years?) at the domestic level do you think that the media wont hype up this person? pathan is hyped up because he bowls like a former great, now really thats quite foolish indeed.

Isn't that what we are discussing? I am not saying he is a great now. WE are still talking about POTENTIAL.

 

[Richard]

What do you mean non-test class opposition. with the way NZ is playing against australia right now, it seems they are a non-test class opposition. Dont talk sh!t. A test nation is a test nation.

New Zealand recently bashed Bangladesh into next week, with a similarly rubbish side to that currently being hammered by Australia.
Any fool can see that Bangladesh have never been close to Test-match standard, they'd struggle against the top domestic sides around The World; and equally any fool can see that Zimbabwe have not been up to it since WC2003.
And so Bangladesh games aren't real Test-matches, just because they are mistakenly classified as such.

 

[Richard]

hehehe..actually I just had a look at the 83 World Cup scores..and I was wrong ..Hick didnt actually play in the world cup,but he was in the squad from what I can remember.

I do remember him playing for the Zimbabweans in 85(??) when they toured England and I think he scored a big double hundred vs Worcestershire (of all people) at the age of 18 or 19.

Well it's not really surprising if he scored the runs against Worcs, is it???
The first county to spot him would naturally be the most likely to snap him up, wouldn't they?

 

[Swervy]

Well it's not really surprising if he scored the runs against Worcs, is it???
The first county to spot him would naturally be the most likely to snap him up, wouldn't they?

hehehe..actaully my Hick facts are wrong...he scored the double hundred vs Oxford Uni in 85 (not quite so good )..he almost scored a double vs Glamorgan though..

I will get it right eventually

 

[Richard]

Oh, well... don't know why you're bothered, it's only that worthless domestic cricket, after all...

 

[Sanz]

Any fool can see that Bangladesh have never been close to Test-match standard

You are right Only fools can see that Bangladesh have never been close to the test match standard, because us wise ones can see that slowly they are getting better. They are inconsistent but definately 50 times better than 2000.

In 2003 they came close to winning a test match in Pakistan and performed very well.

 

[SJS]

You are right Only fools can see that Bangladesh have never been close to the test match standard, because us wise ones can see that slowly they are getting better. They are inconsistent but definately 50 times better than 2000.

Doesnt this belong in the Cricket Humour Forum

 

[Swervy]

Oh, well... don't know why you're bothered, it's only that worthless domestic cricket, after all...

have never said domestic cricket is worthless

 

[Sanz]

Doesnt this belong in the Cricket Humour Forum

It Probably does

 

[sledger]

have never said domestic cricket is worthless

far from it i say, the quality of county cricket is wildly underated in my opinion, michael clarke who struggled for much of the season for hampshire and regularly failed to get above 30 in an innings then went to india on tour with australia and proceeded to rack up huge scores.

 

[PAKMAN]

All the best

I hope sachin gets his 35th 100 out of the way and of course that India wins

so we got all the best of today ,thanx for ur best wishes

 

[tooextracool]

err how many innings there 10 ?? out of 400+ matches ?? Really some record..wow I am impressed.

yes because im supposed to go thro every one of those 400 games and find out which ones were against test class bowlers???
ive looked at a few games against some of the quality bowlers- especially ones whom most people thought he had problems against at the test match level, ie ambrose, waqar, wasim and walsh.
and seriously, have your indian domestic stars of lamba ever played against any bowlers remotely near the quality of those bowlers let alone scored against them at the domestic level?
HELL NO.

Not to forget that most of the innings are post his international debut, the hype bubble was burst by then.

your point is? i deliberately looked at bowlers who played county cricket after his debut, because as i said earlier, i particularly wanted to refute the people who thought he was useless against wasim, waqar ambrose and walsh, who he seemed to have problems against at the international level. ive never argued that he was a brilliant player at the test level, but that he was far better than any of the rubbish players you bring up and use as a comparison to him.

Oh and btw if you have not noticed, none of those attacks are international class despite the presence of names like Donald, Wasim, Waqar, Ambrose, Walsh etc. or are you telling us that Hick faced a combined attack of Walsh,Ambrose, Wasim,Waqar,Hick together in one single match ?? .

no because people like raman llamba got to play against an attack containing even one of those bowlers . only a fool would argue that an attack containing waqar + 3 domestic trundlers isnt considerably better than the attacks that llamba played which contained all rubbish domestic bowlers.
and seriously how many international sides in the world have had an attack remotely as good as walsh, ambrose, wasim and waqar in the same side?

About, Lara's 501 was made against rubbish attack , well yeah.VV Nimbalkar scored 443 runs in some Ranji match and that really means sh!t to me. It may mean a lot to you and you can declare him the next Hutton, but I wont. For me Internationals are the real deal.

yes because i said hicks 405 is supposed to mean something
you brought up the 405, i said that hicks consistent performance meant that he at least looked like he COULD be something special. how many people have scored with the same consistency as hick did at the first class level for 6 years before their test debut?
you'd probably struggle to find too many.
no and i dont rate players unless they perform at the intls either. and nor have i said that hick was anything other than ordinary. but only a fool would say that pathan who has done absolutely nothing in any form of cricket deserves his hype, AND hick who has been one of englands(and the worlds) most successful domestic player was the most overhyped cricketer ever.

 

[Sanz]

TEC, In case you didn't know Kapildev used to play in the same zone as Raman Lamba.

Pathan's hype is (justified or not) is created after his international debut and after what some ex-cricketers had to say about him whereas Hick's hype was created before he played a single International game.

 

[tooextracool]

Shut up now. You clearly can not back your statement up that Akram said about Inzi being better than Sachin, and now you are making another claim about Rameez Raja saying the same thing. Even though Rameez is a very ordinary cricketer
with very limited knowledge of the game, I dont recollect Rameez ever saying that. He is too articulate to make a statement like that.

uh huh, you really lost all credibility in your argument right there. so theres a new rule then? cricketers who are great are the only people who have a good knowledge of the game is it? so since someone like murali is great, and tony cozier was not, we should assume that murali knows more than cozier is it?
and really, you must really be sad, if you believe that akram is extremely knowledgeable about the game.
imran khan while he knows more than akram, certainly hasnt been anything short of making stupid comments. perhaps you'd like to argue with some of his old comments: inzy is the best player of fast bowling since viv richards or well, in only another thread we're arguing about how hes an idiot for saying that tendulkar is not a match winner(while i dont exactly disagree with him). so really apparently this same person must be right about pathan.

Please dont make ridiculous claims about Imran saying Inzi better than Richards or something

"He is the best batsman against fast bowling I have seen after West Indian Viv Richards," said Imran.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/1965877.stm

"The moment I saw Tendulkar batting at Karachi I thought he has a long career ahead of him. He was a young bloke, but batted with lots of patience and technically he was very sound. He built his innings very solidly and never gave away his wicket. Bowlers had to work hard to force him make a mistake.

But still I believe Inzamam-ul Haq is a better batsman than Tendulkar. I stood by my words when I last compared Tendulkar with Inzamam in the 1992 World Cup. The only difference between Inzy and Tendulkar is that Tendulkar has lots of temperament in Test cricket, otherwise I think Inzamam plays fast and spin bowlers better than Tendulkar. I agree that Tendulkar has around 30-odd centuries in one-day Internationals but how many one-day internationals India has won in which Tendulkar has scored centuries.

On the other hand, Inzamam's 11-odd centuries came at a time when Pakistan needed a big knock from him and he delivered for his country"

http://www.rediff.com/cricket/2002/sep/quotes1.htm

need i say anymore sherlock?

What do you mean non-test class opposition. with the way NZ is playing against australia right now, it seems they are a non-test class opposition. Dont talk sh!t. A test nation is a test nation.

you really dont know when to stop. do you seriously believe that NZ is anywhere as poor as b'desh. get over it, the fact that you have to use his performance against bangladesh to make him into a half decent bowler only shows you how desperate your claim is.

 

[tooextracool]

TEC, In case you didn't know Kapildev used to play in the same zone as Raman Lamba.

give him a medal, he played one test class bowler. obviously this means the pace bowlers in indian domestic cricket were better than the ones that hick played, especially when they rarely got the conditions in their favor.

Pathan's hype is (justified or not) is created after his international debut and after what some ex-cricketers had to say about him whereas Hick's hype was created before he played a single International game.

so?whats your point? so apparently if you;re hyped after playing intl cricket you cannot be anymore hyped than someone who succeeded season after season in domestic cricket?
no ive never claimed that hick deserved the hype he got, but he did deserve at least some of it(certainly the comparisons to bradman were ridiculous). but he did do something in terms of performances that not many people had done before. has pathan done anything of the sort in either form? NO.

 

[tooextracool]

Dude, as of now the next Bradman aka Graeme hick and the ordinary FTB Raman Lamba have similar First class average.
Lamba
Batting & Fielding 121 175 12 8776 320 53.84 31 27 60 0
Hick
Batting & Fielding 470 777 76 37505 405* 53.50 126 142 596 0

Lamba scoring a century every 3.9 innings, whereas hick scoring a century every 3.7 innings.

before he made his debut lamba had these averages:
1979 (India) 1 1 0 38 38 38.00 0 0 0
1980-81 (India) 7 12 1 415 166 37.72 1 2 2
1981-82 (India) 8 12 1 527 205* 47.90 1 2 1
1982-83 (India) 6 10 2 402 107* 50.25 1 2 3
1983-84 (India) 9 16 1 464 150 30.93 1 2 12
1984-85 (India) 4 5 0 114 84 22.80 0 1 3
1985-86 (India) 7 11 1 691 231 69.10 3 2 4

hick had these:
1984 (England) 1 1 1 82 82* 0 1 1
1984-85 (Zimbabwe) 6 12 1 389 95 35.36 0 2 5
1985 (England) 17 25 1 1265 230 52.70 4 3 12
1985-86 (Zimbabwe) 3 5 0 332 154 66.40 2 0 5
1986 (England) 24 37 6 2004 227* 64.64 6 11 29
1987 (England) 25 38 2 1879 173 52.19 8 6 13
1987-88 (New Zealand) 9 14 1 827 146 63.61 4 3 9
1988 (England) 24 37 2 2713 405* 77.51 10 5 28
1988-89 (New Zealand) 8 16 3 1228 211* 94.46 6 2 8
1989 (England) 24 38 6 1824 173* 57.00 6 8 43
1990 (England) 21 35 9 2347 252* 90.26 8 14 26
1990-91 (Australia) 11 21 2 904 155 47.57

now i dont know which one you'd choose, but i think its fairly obvious why hick was hyped up more than lamba before his debut and looked more likely to score at the intl level.
hick averaged 63 before debut, which was considerably better than lambas.

 

[tooextracool]

In 2003 they came close to winning a test match in Pakistan and performed very well.

just so you know, 2003 was 2 years ago. but i guess the same side that scored 400 on debut against india but has lost 5 out of its last 6 genuine games by an innings, is slowly getting better.