If Starc makes ODI ATXI , which bowler will most like miss out ?

[ZK$]

Batsmen would be celebrating when they found out they would get to face Starc instead of Wasim, McGrath, or Garner.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Have a lower ER in ODI cricket is much more valuable than in tests, simply because of how it impacts the rest of the attack and the pressure you build. A lot of Waqar's wickets for example were taken from pressure built by Wasim at the other end.

Hence why guys like McGrath, Wasim, Garner and Pollock are better than Starc.

TBF, this is what makes Starc's 2015 WC the best ever bowling performance at a world cup. It was the highest scoring world cup ever and he somehow managed an economy rate of 3.5

Agree that he isn't as good as Wasim tho. Akram is the ODI GOAT.

 

[subshakerz]

TBF, this is what makes Starc's 2015 WC the best ever bowling performance at a world cup. It was the highest scoring world cup ever and he somehow managed an economy rate of 3.5

Agree that he isn't as good as Wasim tho. Akram is the ODI GOAT.

Yup that WC was an awesome performance.

In general though, Starc was more of a basher against medium to low quality bats. High quality bats wouldn't have a problem dismantling him. He never took ABD's wicket in ODIs interestingly, and only took Kohli's once.

 

[Nintendo]

Starc is highly overrated, sorry.

Averages well over 30 against India, England and SA, the best batting sides of the era.

I think I would take Waqar over Starc if not for WC 2015.

Lol at those thinking of switching Wasim for Starc. Wasim is the greatest death bowler of all-time IMO.

He averages 30-31 vs India and England from memery, not "well above 30" FYI. Warne and murali both have dreadful records vs India in ODI who where the best team vs spin in their era and yet are the two spinners most resort to for an ATG XI. Are they overrated?

Also, decks are way more batting friendly now then they were 10 years ago. If you make waqar into an ODI game played today he's gonna have a higher Econ rate because of the two new balls. The ball doesn't swing at all outside the first over most games and it's easier to smash around for the entire Powerplay, reverse swing is dead and it's a ton easier to hit runs at the death cause the ball is 15-20 overs old. You couldn't do that back in the 90's-2000's so easily because the Whiteball is soft and has most of the air out of it by the time it's the 40th over, much harder to hit that then arl relatively fresh one. Also new bats etc

 

[Socerer 01]

odis are the one format that have changed drastically so comparing someone playing today to back then straight doesn't make sense. for one wickets are more valuable than runs in today's odi because everyone can hit well if they are settled and the only solution to that is keep dismissing players as they come in

 

[Flem274*]

Given he's been the best bowler at 2 world cups playing a variety of oppo, I don't care what his overall averages against 3 carefully selected opposition are tbh. strongly ignores the elephant in the room of him playing for one of the clear best 3 sides in odis last 10 years and his record against probably the second best odi side past 10 years (with aus and england trading #1).

SA are a clear #5 and India were brushed aside by Australia when they met in 2015.

 

[subshakerz]

Given he's been the best bowler at 2 world cups playing a variety of oppo, I don't care what his overall averages against 3 carefully selected opposition are tbh. strongly ignores the elephant in the room of him playing for one of the clear best 3 sides in odis last 10 years and his record against probably the second best odi side past 10 years (with aus and england trading #1).

SA are a clear #5 and India were brushed aside by Australia when they met in 2015.

That is an odd comment. India and England have been the strongest batting sides for a number of years and SA until 2015 were also quite strong.

Regardless of rankings, Starc having a poorish record against three top teams is a legitimate knock on him. Maybe one or two teams he could be given a pass.

I would put Starc along with McGrath if it's a World Cup XI though.

 

[subshakerz]

He averages 30-31 vs India and England from memery, not "well above 30" FYI. Warne and murali both have dreadful records vs India in ODI who where the best team vs spin in their era and yet are the two spinners most resort to for an ATG XI. Are they overrated?

Also, decks are way more batting friendly now then they were 10 years ago. If you make waqar into an ODI game played today he's gonna have a higher Econ rate because of the two new balls. The ball doesn't swing at all outside the first over most games and it's easier to smash around for the entire Powerplay, reverse swing is dead and it's a ton easier to hit runs at the death cause the ball is 15-20 overs old. You couldn't do that back in the 90's-2000's so easily because the Whiteball is soft and has most of the air out of it by the time it's the 40th over, much harder to hit that then arl relatively fresh one. Also new bats etc

I wouldn't rate Waqar ahead of Starc since he has a similar MO but poor WC record so it's irrelevant. Anyways, we can't know for sure how bowlers before would adapt to today so we take their records mostly at face value unless they exceeded their era.

Warne and Murali only really flopped against one team. Three teams is an issue if you are comparing Starc to McGrath/Garner/Akram.

 

[Nintendo]

I wouldn't rate Waqar ahead of Starc since he has a similar MO but poor WC record so it's irrelevant. Anyways, we can't know for sure how bowlers before would adapt to today so we take their records mostly at face value unless they exceeded their era.

Warne and Murali only really flopped against one team. Three teams is an issue if you are comparing Starc to McGrath/Garner/Akram.

Averaging 30 in this era isn't "flopping" either though. A 30 average bowler is somewhere around the mean for ODI bowlers nowadays, and starc has dominated the other best team of this era (NZ).

 

[honestbharani]

I think Wasim is definitely the better bowler but teams wont lose much by picking Starc over him.

I would still play Wasim though, coz I think he had a better variety of skillsets to adapt to more pitches than Starc. Of course, you can also play them both but I am never a fan of having two left armers take the new ball when you got Ambrose/McGrath sitting out or not taking the new ball.

 

[Nintendo]

I think Wasim is definitely the better bowler but teams wont lose much by picking Starc over him.

I would still play Wasim though, coz I think he had a better variety of skillsets to adapt to more pitches than Starc. Of course, you can also play them both but I am never a fan of having two left armers take the new ball when you got Ambrose/McGrath sitting out or not taking the new ball.

If where playing under more 90's style conditions couldn't you play both starc and Wasim? Starc + McGrath can swing it up front which means Wasim can more effectively focus on operating in the middle overs/death. Older ball would ideally mean starc could get more reverse in the later part of the game aswell.

 

[subshakerz]

Averaging 30 in this era isn't "flopping" either though. A 30 average bowler is somewhere around the mean for ODI bowlers nowadays, and starc has dominated the other best team of this era (NZ).

Don't think NZ is the best batting team of the era, particularly when they face Australia.

And averaging 30 plus is flopping relative to other ATGs.

 

[subshakerz]

If where playing under more 90's style conditions couldn't you play both starc and Wasim? Starc + McGrath can swing it up front which means Wasim can more effectively focus on operating in the middle overs/death. Older ball would ideally mean starc could get more reverse in the later part of the game aswell.

Yeah I think Starc as a destructor can have a role over Garner as third seamer.

Strange how the idea of two left arm opening bowlers is so instinctively off-putting for all of us compared to right-handers.

 

[honestbharani]

Yeah I think Starc as a destructor can have a role over Garner as third seamer.

Strange how the idea of two left arm opening bowlers is so instinctively off-putting for all of us compared to right-handers.

I think both right handers is also not great for an ATG side.

 

[Ali TT]

Don't think NZ is the best batting team of the era, particularly when they face Australia.

And averaging 30 plus is flopping relative to other ATGs.

He's playing in a different era to those other ATGs. ODI cricket is unrecognisable, pyjamas and white ball aside, to what was played in the 90s, even much of the 00s and early 2010s. Will be interesting to see how he gets on in the world cup this year, but another good tournament and he'd be at the very top of the podium of ATGs.

 

[honestbharani]

If where playing under more 90's style conditions couldn't you play both starc and Wasim? Starc + McGrath can swing it up front which means Wasim can more effectively focus on operating in the middle overs/death. Older ball would ideally mean starc could get more reverse in the later part of the game aswell.

Yeah but not using Wasim with the new ball does seem to be a waste and I actually think the 3rd seamers' role is more specialized than we tend to think, esp. in ODIs.