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Ideal Number of overseas players in County Cricket

Ideal number of overseas players in County Cricket

  • 0

    Votes: 2 8.3%
  • 1

    Votes: 7 29.2%
  • 2

    Votes: 15 62.5%

  • Total voters
    24

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Armadillo said:
I'd say the more the merrier. It will only increase the profile of the english county season.
Err...




No.
County cricket, like all domestic cricket, is foredoomed to obscurity. The domestic First-Class game is not a spectator sport anywhere in The World and if you ask me never will be again, and the domestic one-day game, while it has more potential than is currently being realised, doesn't have that which some countries do.
Overseas-players do one primary thing - take a massive amount of money out of the game compared to an English player.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
iamdavid said:
Im of the belief that playing against the best makes you better, in the long run a developing English batsman will gain more from facing someone like Michael Kasprowics in the early stages of his carear than some county trundler like Neil Gunter.
Likewise the young bowler will learn more from bowling to Hussey or Hooper than he would charging in at the likes of Michael Gough.
Michael Gough is a far better player than he gave himself credit for last season. Sadly I think his career is likely to be over.
Personally I believe you rarely learn much in the middle. No young English batsman is going to learn anything by getting a jaffer from Kapsrowicz.
However, the young Glam batsmen IMO certainly benefit more from facing Kapsrowicz in the nets than they do facing Andrew Davies or David Harrison. Similarly, a young bowler, if he wants to, can learn far more from Kasprowicz than anyone else, especially with Watkin retired. Kasprowicz has been great in this respect.
Basically, if the overseas player has the right attitude (they're giving me something, only fair if I give them something in return) and the English players have the right attitude (he can do things I can't - let's see if I can learn them with his help) then one good overseas player is a very worthwhile part of the English game. These days, two is almost impossible to find with the amount of international cricket played.
Then there is the revenue factor , having draw card overseas players like Carl Hooper , Murali , Shoaib , etc will surely encourage more of a crowd following than the average county mugs would , thus more profits & raising the profile of the game.
I don't, however, think this will have any real impact. The domestic First-Class game isn't a spectator sport anywhere in The World and anyone who thinks England can change that is a fool.
It also helps raise the general standard of play , helps narrow the gap between county & test cricket.


But on the other hand one must realise that every overseas player who comes in means a young Englishman will spend a year playing 2nd XI's , the clearest example being Rikki Clarke / Azhar Mahmood.

I really think that all things considered 2 overseas players per county should be fine , but that means 2 players who arent eligable to play for England.
I believe that EU regulations prevent the ECB from doing it so perhaps the counties could get together & form a bit of a gentlemans agreement , players like Spearman & Jaques who cheat the system will be the downfall of English cricket unless they take action.
Personally I think the like of Spearman and Jacques are the sort I don't mind cheating the system. These two are both good batsmen and others can learn from playing and training with them.
Anyone who is good enough for international cricket will break through anyway, that's not a worry for me. The worry is the amount of money spent on overseas players (and obviously with three and four different players per season, flights in and out and all, this exacerbates basic contractual fees) that could be invested in more worthwhile aspects. English players cost far less and IMO you can only risk so much money to raise the standard at the club. It doesn't help unless everyone has the right attitude to learning and improving, anyway, so that needs to be sorted before worrying about who's going to raise the standard and who isn't.
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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Richard said:
Nope, one of the hoped replacements (even though he's rather older than King and co.)
He bowled absolute and utter crap in England in 2000 and was dropped never to be seen again (presumably, anyway).
But I was amazed how well he bowled at times last season. A massive improvement. Sadly, probably too late. 31 now, IIRR.
He bowled crap v England, but bowled superbly against Zimbabwe and Pakistan before that. I don't think much of him anymore because in my estimation he has not discipline and should never be let near the West Indies team again.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
He presumably wouldn't have toured here if he hadn't had good performances before...
He was one of those who was hoped of as a "Ambrose-Walsh replacement". And like many, he proved not up to the task despite something to give impulsive fans hope.
 

Craig

World Traveller
Richard said:
Michael Gough is a far better player than he gave himself credit for last season. Sadly I think his career is likely to be over.
Didnt Gough play for England at u-19 level v Australia in 1999?

Richard said:
Personally I think the like of Spearman and Jacques are the sort I don't mind cheating the system. These two are both good batsmen and others can learn from playing and training with them.
Is Spearman elidgable (sp) to play for England when he spends the required time in England? Or is playing domestic cricket in NZ ruled out his chances?

Spearman is counted as an overseas player for CD.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
In theory Spearman and Jaques both will be in time, except Jaques then decided to break this by playing back in Australia this winter.

This should invalidate his status as a non-OS player for 2004, but I fear it won't.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Craig said:
Didnt Gough play for England at u-19 level v Australia in 1999?
Certainly did. Captain and star batsman.
And WRT the Spearman\Jacques issue, they mightn't qualify for England but they are both good batsmen who raise the standard of the game, simple as. So therefore as long as they're not being paid over-generous amounts they're worth it.
 

Rik

Cricketer Of The Year
Just the one for me. I feel the overseas player is there to help the team and the players, not take the place of promising youngsters (which is usually the case). It is not English Cricket's job to train up players so they can come back with their countries and tour England and use that experiance against them. Also the reason given to increase it to 2 overseas players, basically that it would bring more crowds and increase the standard, has not happened. I also feel with the ever-increasing numbers of EU-Qualified players coming to play County Cricket with no intention of playing for England, we are already giving our Counties on average another 3-4 overseas players anyway. The EU debate is not untouchable though, do you really want to see counties full of non-England qualified players and England Internationals? County Cricket is the feeder system for the Test side. Do we really have to start putting in quotas to tell our counties that they are here for this reason?
 

Craig

World Traveller
IMO I think counties who sign EU players should put some cause in the contract that they intend to play for England. Whether they do or not, is up to the selectors.
 

Swervy

International Captain
Richard said:
Err...




No.
County cricket, like all domestic cricket, is foredoomed to obscurity. The domestic First-Class game is not a spectator sport anywhere in The World and if you ask me never will be again, and the domestic one-day game, while it has more potential than is currently being realised, doesn't have that which some countries do.
Overseas-players do one primary thing - take a massive amount of money out of the game compared to an English player.
yes in its current form the county championship is slowly dying...thats why it needs a good old shake up...less teams possibly, scheduling to take into account when people work etc...stuff like that, then maybe it can be turned around. I think one day stuff is in ok-ish position in this country.
 

Greg Blewett

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
Whats the problem with hussey? He's a great player, he should be playing for australia in reality. He would be playing for most other countries if he was of that nationality

...but to answer the question, zero. I think no international players help's the most but that will never happen so one would probably be best.
 
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Swervy

International Captain
Greg Blewett said:

...but to answer the question, zero. I think no international players help's the most but that will never happen so one would probably be best.
I think in a set up like England have (far too many mediocre players because there are too many teams in my opinion) you need an overseas player as long as he is of international standard, just so that each team does have a class player and you are guarenteed to be playing against a world class player. I think the danger at the moment is that there are a few too many overseas players who just arent up to world class standard, and so I dont see the benefit of having those players around....and i agree with you about Hussey
 

Greg Blewett

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
Swervy said:
I think in a set up like England have (far too many mediocre players because there are too many teams in my opinion) you need an overseas player as long as he is of international standard, just so that each team does have a class player and you are guarenteed to be playing against a world class player. I think the danger at the moment is that there are a few too many overseas players who just arent up to world class standard, and so I dont see the benefit of having those players around....and i agree with you about Hussey

True, I see your point. What has happened to English cricket? My father is a yorkshireman as was my grandfather and all they ever talked about is how strong the old Yorkshire sides
were, is it football that is stealing all the potential English cricketers?

Possibly the problem lies in not anything to do with foreign players but rather in attracting
more youth to the game of cricket?
 

Swervy

International Captain
Greg Blewett said:
True, I see your point. What has happened to English cricket? My father is a yorkshireman as was my grandfather and all they ever talked about is how strong the old Yorkshire sides
were, is it football that is stealing all the potential English cricketers?

Possibly the problem lies in not anything to do with foreign players but rather in attracting
more youth to the game of cricket?
indeed..it has been said in the past that a strong Yorkshire team means a strong England team..hasnt quite worked like that recently (Yorkshire winning the Championship a couple of years back)

The attracting younger people to the games bit, I feel, can be helped by bringing in top name players to the county game
 

Rich2001

International Captain
Greg Blewett said:
Possibly the problem lies in not anything to do with foreign players but rather in attracting
more youth to the game of cricket?
A very valid point, but at the end of the day money talks in this world football has turned stupidly mad in the last 10 years, with more money involded than is believe able.

I remember one match on Sky a year or so back they got the stats book out on one match and followed the England captain for the entier match and he was only involded in play for 14 mins of the match, now he got paid what £60,000 for that and even if he was out injuried or on the bench he gets the money anyway, a cricketer could only just match that in 2 seasons in the English game - Now as a young lad where would you want to go, money, fame etc or standing at fine leg in the frezzing cold ;)

Maybe bring in a system like the Australians where you only get paid if you play, soon have them praticing 24 hours a day and have a incentive to aim for.

Manchester U are worth how many billions these days, my team Kent have just announced pre tax profits of £51,250 for the year...we are one of the only countries to even be able to do that, somebody can confirm but last season I thing there was only 3 counties or so that even made a profit.

It's a catch 22 - ECB want to attract people to watch the game, yet do nothing to help the situation, they themselves are money grabbers and sell the TV rights to the highest bidder, it's always and as far as I can see will always be Sky, so unless your willing to cough up the £40 a month (full package) then your going to see about 5 Tests a year, and even when the games are on domestic TV how much advertising of the games do you see? (C4 who show the games) had a few ads on TV but not much, I think I heard a few ads on a Radio station that covered the games but bar that they was nothing at all as far as I can remember, and it doesn't help the game when the channel decides that a repeat of some silly programe is more important than the last hour of the cricket...

Trust me there is a point in there somewhere :saint: :D
 
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Rich2001

International Captain
I agree 100% here Hussey is a god in Northants (proberly) - the guy has dominated County Cricket for the past what 3/4 years, he has broken serval of the Northants records and seems to like scoring triple tons alot :rolleyes:

If the young lads have learnt nothing from Hussey they really shouldn't be in the game.

Techincally he represented Australia a few weeks back so he is now a International not just a overseas player all be it not regular. Like it has been said Hussey would make most sides in the world and now a few of the Australians have and will be retiring, I bet he is a solid fixture in that side for a long time to come.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Craig said:
IMO I think counties who sign EU players should put some cause in the contract that they intend to play for England.
That would be barred by law unfortunately.
 

Rich2001

International Captain
Marc would it work by putting a limit on as well like

2 Overseas players or 2 EU players
1 and 1 etc

Or is that techincally bad as well?
 

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